========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1993 13:14:49 -0400 From: HARRY PENCE Subject: Re: New Tools vs. Old Methods I loved the story of the 13 year old boy who has become interested in science because he's fascinated by roller coasters. I think the important criteria is not just how much material we cover, but how much we interest our students in the subject. That doesn't mean we have to dress up like Bobo the Clown or water down the material. It does mean that we, as experts (or the closest thing available to experts) have to *show* them how our field relates to things that they, the students, are likely to be interested in. The new generation of students have been bombarded all their lives by TV, movies, etc., and all of these powerful tools have also been used to try to attract them (usually to buy a product, etc.). As a result, we have a harder job convincing them. It isn't impossible, we just have to work a little harder and do things a little differently. Don't give up on reading and listening as means of communication, but also make use of visual methods that our students are more accustomed to. In essence, we teachers are like the fisherperson who discovers that the fish are not biting on worms. We can either change the bait we use, or sit around and complain about the fact that fishing isn't what it used to be. The latter activity is fairly common among those who fish, but it doesn't put anything in the creel at the end of the day ;-) . ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 09:18:00 EDT From: to2 Subject: Paper 11 questions Carl Snyder asks: > 1. Are there better carrots to use than extra credit to induce > students to learn and use electronic communication? Extra credit does seem to be a slightly "artificial" way to encourage students. One might ask why WE use e-mail and electronic communication, without being given extra credit by our employers. One reason is that some information is available electronically that is available in no other way. Another is that it allows one to ask questions, share ideas, and work on projects with our collegues in other departments and at other locations more conveniently. Around here I see quite a bit of e-mail traffic across campus and even within the department, when the message clearly could have been delivered in person. But we have the advantage over the students of having worked with e-mail long enough that it becomes routine - even second nature. With practice, it really is easier than walking down the hall to slip a note under someone's door. Our department has recenty begun to distribute most routine notices by e-mail, rather than by paper mail. If you're not connected, you're really "out of it". Hopefully the need for the carrot will eventually go away as more and more students are exposed to computers and e-mail in elementary and high school. There are quite a few projects at the local, national, and international level that involve grade-school kids in cooperative projects on-line: data gathering and sharing, international e-mail pen-pals, that sort of thing. Tom O'Haver U. of Maryland ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 07:18:06 -0700 From: Barbara Sawrey Subject: Paper 11 Questions Carl Snyder asks: > 1. Are there better carrots to use than extra credit to induce > students to learn and use electronic communication? Once my students have learned to use e-mail they say the biggest factor in their continuing to send e-mail to me is the time factor. They can send e-mail anytime -- no waiting for office hours. Most of the mail I get is sent between 8PM and 4AM, which is when students are studying. I can easily log onto the computer during that time and answer them, but I wouldn't dream of scheduling office hours in the middle of the night. That made me think about why I use e-mail to communicate with the person in the office next door to me as well as with those around the world. And one big reason for me is that it is not as disruptive as a phone call. I can send mail on my own schedule, don't need all that phone chitchat (Hi. How are you? How's your summer been?), and can have the same conversation with several people at a time. It's just plain more efficient in many cases. I think students will see many of the same benefits soon after they get involved in e-mail, but the start can be rocky for some. So what I do, once I get the students' written permission to post grades by a portion of their SSN, is post their quiz and exam scores in a computer file. It is the fastest way for them to find out how they did on an exam since it could be as much as a week before they see their TA in discussion section and can see the actual test. As incentive it works pretty well. Barbara Sawrey bsawrey@ucsd.edu UC San Diego ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 11:43:00 EDT From: "Peter Gold, Penn State U. (814) 865-7694" Subject: Re: Paper 11 Questions In-Reply-To: bas%chem.UCSD.EDU AT SDSC.BITNET -- Mon, 2 Aug 1993 07:18:06 -0700 Re inducing students to use e-mail: Our University Testing Service (the office that machine-grades the machine- graded exams here) will begin this fall to offer instructors the option of sending students via e-mail their exam grades together with optional messages from the instructor; the messages can be grade dependent or dependent on the individual student's performance on selected parts of the exam. I exepct that this will provide incentive for more students to learn to use our campus e-mail system; because it is IBM-mainframe-based, it is fairly user-hostile and intimidating and there is a high activation barrier to using it. One reason that so many faculty use it routinely is, as several of you have pointed out, it is so convenient for them. To send an e-mail message I need only turn 180 degrees in my desk chair. Students here, and, I'm sure, at many other places, must go to a computer lab where they may have to wait for a unit to be free which makes it far less convenient for them. An incentive for some students comes when they realize they can communicate with friends at other schools and/or with their families. I know from direct experience that requests for money from one's children at college come more readily by e-mail than by letter or phone. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 10:40:10 EST From: Larry Rosenhein Subject: e-mail in teaching Last year I had what I thought was the intriguing idea of making an e- mail-type function available to students in a regular general chemistry course. They would be able to post messages and also read all the messages and replies. I had pleasant visions of students running to the microlabs to pose questions about homework problems they were stuck on, or to see if anyone had replied to their problem, or to show off how much they knew by answering other students' queries. The instructor would be able to monitor and contribute also. Even though I was not teaching this course at the time, I wanted to see if it worked, so I set it up with the computer center, including arrangements for each student to get a user id and instructions to be handed out in the lecture. It was not e-mail itself, but another freeware program called something like "Notice." But nothing happened, as I could tell from monitoring the program. I'm not sure if this was just not interesting to the students, or to the instructors (who I don't think sold it very hard). This fall I _am_ teaching this course and will give it one more try. I see a lot of potential here. Besides providing another outlet for chewing on the material, creating a sense of community, and developing those all-important communication skills, this activity might simply add to the interest of being in the course itself. One other thing that e-mail could be used for that I don't think was mentioned is posting old exams from the course. This could both save work (and remove the problem of having exams stolen from the library), and provide the incentive for students to get on the system in the first place. Larry Rosenhein Indiana State University/Terre Haute CHROSEN@SCIFAC.INDSTATE.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 11:51:40 -0400 From: "CARL H. SNYDER, CHEMISTRY; CSNYDER@UMIAMI" Subject: Paper 11: Replies to short questions Replies to short questions for Paper11: *********************************************************** >Questions for Carl H. Snyder, Paper 11 >"Applications of Networked Computers and Electronic Mail in a Chemistry >Course for nonScience Students" >1. Was the question of security brought up with respect to students >having access to the Department LAN? If so, how did you resolve the >situation? > >2. I presume that similar menu progrmas could be used in a Windows >or Mac environment. 1. Security is maintained pricipally by the use of passwords (a different one for each class using the lan) and by the use of read-only attributes for some critical files. Naturally any student who has a class password can change the attribute and wreak havoc. I think the most effective security measure we used was simply to back up all the files we put onto the lan. In practice, we had no security problems. If we had, all we could have done would be to replace the damaged or erased files. 2. I guess so. I'm fond of DOS and did all the work in DOS. I see no reason why the files can't be translated to Windows or the Mac. *********************************************************** >1. From the Syllabus (PAPER11SYL.TXT) I gather that this scheme was used > in the second half of a two semester sequence. Was course evaluation > done both semesters? Were there any differences in course evaluations > or specific comments which might provide some indication of the > success of your scheme? >---------------------------------------------------------------------- This was indeed run during the second semester of a two semester sequence. We haven't yet tried it in the first semester. One reason is that the second semester class is much smaller than the first. We thought it best to carry out our trial run with the smaller class. With the trial run completed, we will repeat it with the first semester course this fall. As I think I noted in the paper, we didn't do an evaluation. Now that we think we know what we are doing in the technical area, we'll run it with the first and second (again) semester courses and get student evaluations. >2. In section 4.1 you mention "Review Questions" using Diploma IV. > a. Can you show us a set of questions with comments for one chapter? > b. Can you tell us a little more about Diploma IV? What unique > features does the package have which made you decide to use it > rather than a simple word processor? >---------------------------------------------------------------------- a. and b. One feature of Diploma IV that I like very much allows the user to scramble the answers to a set of multiple choice questions for the preparation of multiple forms, while keeping the sequence of questions unchanged. In doing this, the program provides a separate answer sheet for each form, showing the newly correct letter for the set of answers to each question. This makes it very easy for me to write one full examination on a word processor and prepare as many different forms as I wish, with a correct answer sheet for each. Moreover, I can add comments to each answer of the multiple choice set I used last year and use that old test as a computer review for the students. In essence, then, I do use a word processor to prepare the examination, then follow up with a conversion to multiple forms and/or a review program with the aid of Diploma IV. Since the output of Diploma IV is useful only with the program itself, I didn't include any of the outputs with the symposium paper. However, I can translate one of the reviews into ASCII and send it to anyone who would like a copy. Let me know if you would like to have one. I'll be happy to e-mail one to you. >3. Am I correct in assuming that each dialog in PAPER11HWK.TXT was > between A student and you? Would there be some advantage to > making this dialog available to ALL students (protecting the > anonymity of the student)? >---------------------------------------------------------------------- You are right. I viewed the communications as personal, just one step removed from a face-to-face conference. Actually, I hadn't thought of making these communications available to all students. My only reservation would be that this might discourage some students who might not want the entire class to read what they are writing to me, for whatever reasons. It's worth a try, though. I think I'll ask students to code each message to me to indicate whether it's stricly private or might be used for the entire class, with anonymity insured. >4. What do you consider to be the advantages and disadvantages of > your scheme > a. from the perspective of the student? > b. from the perspective of the instructor? >---------------------------------------------------------------------- Interesting question. a. I think the students enjoyed and benefitted from the review questions. The reviews gave them an idea of what to expect on the examinations. I used to place the previous year's examinations on reserve in the library and allow students to copy them. Now they've got to get their hands onto a keyboard to get access to the old exams. That's an advance right there. I had hoped to get more contact with individual students with the freedom that e-mail allows, but there was no delge of individual questions or comments. That disappoints me. Maybe it will be different with the fall semester gruop. b. The greatest advantage to me was that I had fun with something new and presumably useful. It was different and stimulating to correspond (for the first time) with students by e-mail, and to grade and return extra credit work by e-mail. Intellectual stimulation was certainly my greatest benefit. >5. Are there any plans to use this scheme with chemistry majors? > If so in which course or courses? If not, why not? >---------------------------------------------------------------------- I'd like to see it used in freshman chemistry, but that's an enormous course -- 700 or so students, I think -- and we're awfully short-handed right now. My colleagues who teach the freshman majors have their hands full just doing what they've been doing routinely for many years. I doubt they have the time or inclination to try something new right now, at least not until I make it very appealing to them through use in the nonmajors course. Carl H. Snyder Internet: CSNYDER@umiami.IR.Miami.EDU Chemistry Department Bitnet: CSNYDER@umiami University of Miami Phone: (305)-284-2174 Coral Gables, FL 33124 FAX: (305)-285-4571 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 10:56:55 EDT From: "R. T. Wilson" Subject: Paper 11 Discussion Carl Snyder's paper raises interesting questions. Anyone teaching chemistry to liberal arts students is basically placed in the roll of a technological missionary working among the heathen. What kind of baubles and trinkets can we pass out to keep them happy and satisfied? After all, there are more of them than there are of us, so we need to proceed cautiously lest they turn hostile. Carl asks: Subject: Discussion of Paper 11 It is now 11:35 AM on Monday August 2. It is time to begin discussion of Paper 11. Where are the author's answers to the Short Questions? Where is everyone? Don Rosenthal ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 14:33:28 EDT From: "C. H. Lochmuller" Subject: Re: Paper 11 Baubles for Liberal Arts Students In-Reply-To: <9308021815.AA22674@umd5.umd.edu>; from "R. T. Wilson" at Aug 2, 93 10:56 am What kind of baubles can one offer? IF the students are truly Liberal Arts and not just passing time in college until they can do what they planned in high school., I doubt that bribes are necessary. On the other hand, they may not react as desired if one leaps into the world of quantum mechanics as a starting topic. It is not necessary to view teaching good Arts majors as unwilling to listen. It certainly helps to know enough about chemistry before 1970 to show them the course of intelectual development that is now presented as shorthand format glimpses and called intro chemistry. It is NOT necessary to wax environmental, to dwell only on chemotaxonomy as used by archeologists, to speak ony of the last age of chemistry which ended with Lavoisier { everything since is physics?} as some claim. It is necessary to be inventive. They often will listen to structure lectures if you first let them speculate why two rubber items - a length of surgical latex and the gutta percha of art erasers are chemically identical in that both are polyisoprene. Yet one stretches and the other won't. I suppose that what needs to be thought about is what do we hope to leave Arts majors/students with when the course is over? Our very successful 20+ year run of Chemistry for Executives is certainly a product of such thought. Want to lose a student fat? Try the Treasurer of Dupont if you can't teach to his perceived needs from a course. Or the VP for data Processing from Phillips. Both undergrad liberal arts majors. No prior chemistry. Same pedagogical problem. C. H. Lochmuller Duke University ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 15:17:13 -0400 From: "Aline (Lindy) Harrison" Subject: Paper #11 e-mail and class Re: e-mail and baubles one can offer....from my point of view, freshman course is too early to enter e-mail. I am offering it in a senior capstone course but as a part of Internet acquisition of library info and I will also set up a notes system in which I will give assignments which they can pick up only in e-mail notes system....thus forcing them into it. Again, my point of view....they may be interested or passing time in college but pressures are to be practical so I will set the students up that their e-mail participation is necessary to get what they need...for a grade as usually seems to be the definition of "necessary". Lindy Harrison, York College of PA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 15:58:26 -0400 From: "CARL H. SNYDER, CHEMISTRY; CSNYDER@UMIAMI" Subject: Re: e-mail in teaching Larry Rosenhein writes: > Last year I had what I thought was the intriguing idea of making >an e- mail-type function available to students in a regular general >chemistry course. They would be able to post messages and also read >all the messages and replies. I had pleasant visions of students >running to the microlabs to pose questions about homework problems >they were stuck on, or to see if anyone had replied to their problem, >or to show off how much they knew by answering other students' >queries. The instructor would be able to monitor and contribute (omitted material) > But nothing happened, as I could tell from >monitoring the program. I'm not sure if this was just not >interesting to the students, or to the instructors (who I don't think >sold it very hard). This fall I _am_ teaching this course and will >give it one more try. I had a similar experience with e-mail in a nonmajors class. See Paper 11 of the ChemConference. (omitted material) > One other thing that e-mail could be used for that I don't think >was mentioned is posting old exams from the course. This could >both save work (and remove the problem of having exams stolen from >the library), and provide the incentive for students to get on the >system in the first place. In Paper 11 and in my response to the short questions I describe my use of old examinations as a foundation for a computer review of course material. I might add here that in an introductory organic couse I taught this summer I did post old examinations on our departmental lan, with great success. Carl H. Snyder Internet: CSNYDER@umiami.IR.Miami.EDU Chemistry Department Bitnet: CSNYDER@umiami University of Miami Phone: (305)-284-2174 Coral Gables, FL 33124 FAX: (305)-285-4571 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 17:01:20 -0500 Reply-To: Carolyn Sweeney Judd From: Carolyn Sweeney Judd Subject: Re: Paper #11 e-mail In-Reply-To: <9308021956.AA29237@umd5.umd.edu> Dear Lindy Harrison, York College of PA: Can you give a brief outline of using Internet for acquisition of library information? Perhaps a syllabus? I am very interested in helping my students develop this skill. On Mon, 2 Aug 1993, Aline (Lindy) Harrison wrote: > Re: e-mail and baubles one can offer....from my point of view, freshman course > is too early to enter e-mail. I am offering it in a senior capstone course but > as a part of Internet acquisition of library info and I will also set up a Thank you. Carolyn S. Judd Central College, Houston Community College System 1300 Holman Houston TX 77004 713-630-1103 cjudd@tenet.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 18:11:34 -0400 From: "James E. Van Verth" Subject: Re: e-mail in teaching Following a the practice of the people at Case Western, I have been posting solutions to current exams on the network server. The consist of scanned copies of hand-marked tests, and thus have to be stored as paint files. Theyare low resolution to save space, and are jagged, but readable. Students clamor for them if I don't post them in a timely fashion. They like it because they can each print their own copy. It also eliminates the problem of the answers being stolen from the bulletin board. James E. Van Verth Department of Chemistry VANVERTH@CANISIUS.BITNET Canisius College, Buffalo, NY 14208 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 19:59:18 -0400 From: "CARL H. SNYDER, CHEMISTRY; CSNYDER@UMIAMI" Subject: Paper 11: Responses, Part I Response to comments on Paper 11: Tom O'Haver U. of Maryland writes: >Carl Snyder asks: >> 1. Are there better carrots to use than extra credit to induce >> students to learn and use electronic communication? > >Extra credit does seem to be a slightly "artificial" way >to encourage students. One might ask why WE use e-mail and >electronic communication, without being given extra credit >by our employers. One reason is that some information is ..... >Hopefully the need for the carrot will eventually go away as more >and more students are exposed to computers and e-mail in >elementary and high school. There are quite a few projects at the >local, national, and international level that involve grade-school >kids in cooperative projects on-line: data gathering and sharing, >international e-mail pen-pals, that sort of thing. True enough. Extra credit is not only artificial, but a bribe. I dislike using it to entice students into e-maii. And sure, the need for the carrot will eventually disappear as students in elementary grades and high school work their way into college. But what are we to do in the meantime? As I see it, we need either to make e-mail compelling fun (the carrot) or a requirement for a good grade (the stick) until students who have grown up academically on e-mail get into our courses. I welcome any ideas for carrots. I'd like to avoid the sticks if possible. Barbara Sawrey bsawrey@ucsd.edu UC San Diego writes: > Carl Snyder asks: > > 1. Are there better carrots to use than extra credit to induce > > students to learn and use electronic communication? > >Once my students have learned to use e-mail they say the biggest >factor in their continuing to send e-mail to me is the time factor. >They can send e-mail anytime -- no waiting for office hours. Most of >the mail I get is sent between 8PM and 4AM, which is when students >are studying. I can easily log onto the computer during that time and >answer them, but I wouldn't dream of scheduling office hours in the >middle of the night. That's the principal reason I want to introduce e-mail: to increase the effecitveness and efficiency of my communications with my students. I see it as a supplement to the office visit, a quick and easy way for a student to ask a simple question at any time and get a rapid response. But my students didn't see it that way, at least not in this limited test. Then again, maybe very few had simple questions. >but the start can be rocky for some. So what I do, once I get the >students' written permission to post grades by a portion of their SSN, >is post their quiz and exam scores in a computer file. It is the fastest >way for them to find out how they did on an exam since it could be >as much as a week before they see their TA in discussion section and >can see the actual test. As incentive it works pretty well. I don't think it would work for me. With multiple choice tests and a good testing and grading center, I can get not only printed results, but a nice statistical analysis as well into student hands the period after the examination. Giving that up just to get students to use e-mail seems to me to be a net loss. "Peter Gold, Penn State U. (814) 865-7694" writes: >Our University Testing Service (the office that machine-grades the machine- >graded exams here) will begin this fall to offer instructors the option of >sending students via e-mail their exam grades together with optional >messages from the instructor; the messages can be grade dependent or >dependent on the individual student's performance on selected parts of the >exam. I exepct that this will provide incentive for more students to learn >to use our campus e-mail system; because it is IBM-mainframe-based, it is >fairly user-hostile and intimidating and there is a high activation barrier >to using it. If we had that facility I'd try it, but we don't. As an aside, our e-mail runs off a VAX/VMS and is very easy to use. ................. >only turn 180 degrees in my desk chair. Students here, and, I'm sure, at >many other places, must go to a computer lab where they may have to wait for >a unit to be free which makes it far less convenient for them. We have work stations scattered all over campus, and a nice group of them in our chemistry department. I don't think waiting time is a factor for us. >An incentive for some students comes when they realize they can communicate >with friends at other schools and/or with their families. I know from >direct experience that requests for money from one's children at college >come more readily by e-mail than by letter or phone. Now there's an interesting observation. My one student who did use e-mail extensively (see below) was very, very active in using it to communicate with friends at other universities. Terrell Wilson Virginia Military Institute Lexington, Virginia 24450 e-mail: fchwilson%faculty%vmi@ist.vmi.edu writes: >Carl Snyder's paper raises interesting questions. Anyone teaching chemistry >to liberal arts students is basically placed in the roll of a technological >missionary working among the heathen. What kind of baubles and trinkets can >we pass out to keep them happy and satisfied? After all, there are more of >them than there are of us, so we need to proceed cautiously lest they turn >hostile. Carl asks: >He also says: >Carl, I think I would have a talk with that student. What distinguishes him >from the other 27? Do you have Meyers-Briggs scores of your students >available? Our liberal arts students are not like us, and that is one of the >hardest things for science teachers to understand. Students will use Not only don't I have Meyers-Briggs scores, I don't have the slightest idea what they are. But I can tell you that *she* is distinguished from *her* classmates in that *she* was unquestionably the top student in the class. When I asked her, incidentally, she told me that she had not used e-mail before coming into this course. I regret now that we didn't go into the matter more deeply. Another point: I don't agree that our liberal arts students are not like us, at least in things that matter. Sometimes I do think that as an organic chemist I'm further from a theretical physical chemist, for example, that from a logic major. But that, too, is another matter. > Unless I missed it, you didn't mention how much of the instructional >time in the course was devoted to use of e-mail. If that is one of your >objectives, it may be necessary to devote more time to it. Also, I believe you > made a tactical error in passing out key-word list hardcopies before the tests >when they were already available by e-mail. Students are efficiency experts. >They won't waste time getting them by e-mail if they know you're going to pass >them out anyway. Try distributing something they need by e-mail only. Carl, >I would also like to know how that one unique student compared with the others >when the final grades were passed out. You've got me there. I devoted just one period to e-mail instructions. But as you can see from the appendices I did provide plenty of written instruction. Maybe more time in personal instruction would be beneficial. As for the hard copies, that was an attempt to minimize the stick. I just don't like the idea of making e-mail virtually mandatory. I'll have to think more about that. And, again, she was the top student. Maybe, as the data on the extra credit work suggests, the better students catch on quickly, the poorer students don't. Or is that too facile an explanation? C. H. Lochmuller Duke University writes: >What kind of baubles can one offer? (omitted material) >I suppose that what needs to be thought about is what do we hope to leave >Arts majors/students with when the course is over? Our very successful 20+ >year run of Chemistry for Executives is certainly a product of such thought. >Want to lose a student fat? Try the Treasurer of Dupont if you can't teach >to his perceived needs from a course. Or the VP for data Processing from >Phillips. Both undergrad liberal arts majors. No prior chemistry. Same >pedagogical problem. These comments, including the material I have omitted, contain some interesting points that deserve discussion. But my concern in the paper is focussed more sharply on getting students to use e-mail than on broader pedagogical problems encountered in dealing with nonscience students. This is a discussion that could well be continued in another forum. Lindy Harrison, York College of PA writes: >Re: e-mail and baubles one can offer....from my point of view, freshman course >is too early to enter e-mail. I am offering it in a senior capstone course but >as a part of Internet acquisition of library info and I will also set up a I *hope* you are wrong. It seems to me that freshman in college ought to have the skills to use e-mail in its current form. If they don't have even those skills I have to ask myself whether they have the skills to learn chemistry. But then *motivation* is another matter. I think one of our tasks as teachers is to provide motivation to those students who need it. But that, too, is another discussion. Carl H. Snyder Internet: CSNYDER@umiami.IR.Miami.EDU Chemistry Department Bitnet: CSNYDER@umiami University of Miami Phone: (305)-284-2174 Coral Gables, FL 33124 FAX: (305)-285-4571 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 20:43:31 CDT From: Barry Rowe Subject: Re: Paper #11 e-mail and class I apologize if this arrives late, but the NCSA email server is not working correctly and I guess some of the mail lays around for several days before being sent. In response to Linday Harrison . . . What are you going to do with students who are used to email access in high school and demand it in college? We have an ISDN line and I expect most high schools to have it in 5 years. barry [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] Barry E. Rowe browe@ncsa.uiuc.edu NCSA ChemViz group 240 CAB, 152 E. Springfield Ave. Champaign, IL 61820 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 21:48:16 -0400 From: HARRY PENCE Subject: Using e-mail in class Last semester I introduced electronic communications in my senior seminar class for the first time. My main focus was teaching them to use telenet to access Chem Abstracts, but I also asked each student to sign on to a chemistry-related bulletin board and write a one-page report on one of the threads on that bulletin board. All of the 15 students in the course ultimately completed the assignment, but I had to work very hard to convince some of them. (This was a pass-fail course, and the bulletin board assignment was such a small part of the course that it was difficult to convince anyone that his or her chances of failing the course would increase significantly in this particular assignment was not completed. Part of the problem may have been that I could only spend one lecture on this topic, so I left them largely on their own. I did make it clear, however, that anyone who was having trouble could see me for help, and several students did do this. Only one student clearly became a dedicated e-mail user. Some of the problems which must be overcome the next time I do this include: (a) some of the bulletin boards are either no longer in existence or else are not very active, (b) students felt that the discussions of some of the bulletin boards were not related to their activities, and (c) students felt that it was unlikely that they would have access to e-mail after they graduated. Based on this experience, it may be easier to start e-mail training with sophomores or even earlier. Lest you think I regret the experiment, I certainly plan to try again the next time I teach senior seminar. This was just an exploratory exercise. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | Harry E. Pence BITNET: PENCEHE@SNYONEVA | | Professor of Chemistry PHONE: 607-436-3179 | | SUNY Oneonta FAX: 607-436-2107 | | Oneonta, NY 13820 | ____________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 22:20:35 MDT From: Reed Howald Subject: paper 11 discussion, carrots Paper 11 discussion >are there better carrots? >one reason that so many faculty use it . . . it is so convenient >but nothing happened. >I'd like to see it used in freshman chemistry, but that;s an enormous course -- 700 or so students . . . -- and we're awfully short handed >O'Haver's list >The key to this work is the use of a flexible menu program that allows students easy access . . . Extra credit is a good carrot to get students to use e-mail, but a more effective one is providing the material they need to review for the exam. Rosenhein suggests posting old exams from the course. With modern word processing this will be easy and effective. I envision such large question banks a few years from now that there will be no problem with providing two or three practice exams to each student on every topic we teach. Is the use of e-mail one of the topics we need to teach in chemistry. A month ago I would have said NO! The discussion of paper 9 has changed my mind. If computers are really changing the way we operate as chemists and teachers we owe it to our current students to demonstrate even embryonic uses as early in their education as possible. I see no problem in using e-mail with 700 student classes. Snyder's data indicate the we can anticipate up to 5 communications per student. I had 120 e-mail messages one day last week when I was back from a backpack trip, but that was doable. 3500 messages over 10 weeks is only 70 per day. I would not deal with them all personally, but a TA could sort through them all regularly. At Montana State University all students automatically get a computer account on our VAX system. I like the concept of distributing scores on examinations along with instructor comments to all students by e-mail, and apparently that is all handled by machines. But we will not get 100% yields. Most conference participants have yet to send a message to "CHEMCONF@UMDD.UMD.EDU". It is hard to do, and we (like our students) don't think it is essential. We as teachers must show that we use computers AND make them easier to use. The main menu in paper 15 provides the students e-mail instructions and access. This is an 8 item menu. Selections are made with arrow keys plus return or with a single letter keystroke. I am frustrated with menus that require mice, but we can and should provide menu eccess to computer information and control in a standard way. This is the one item I notice missing from O'Haver's list: Using standard menus. Here is my revision of his list: 1. Using standard menus 2. Files and file types 3. Text editors through desktop publishing 4. Calculators, spreadsheets, and equation solvers 5. Interpreters, compilers, and programming languages 6. Serial and parallel communication 7. Interfacing 8. Calibration 9. Cut, copy and paste 10. Computer graphics 11. Networks, clients, servers and peers 12. Telecommunication and Internet tools Thus use of standard menus is first, because it is the key to easy access to the details one needs on the others. Note that at 12 item menu like this does not allow selection by a single letter (I is used twice and C four times). I propose using two letter key strokes for standard menu choices, and providing the information one needs for a particular job on the computer no further than two menus away. We shouldn't need to be drilled in how to use UUDECODE. we should be taught where to find the file and where to get the instructions. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 06:51:00 EDT From: "Thomas C. OHAVER" Subject: Paper 11: Posting old exams > One other thing that e-mail could be used for that I don't think > was mentioned is posting old exams from the course. For the last three years I have been posting old exams for my courses in a directory on the departmental LAN fileserver. The advantages over e-mail distribution are two-fold: first, the documents retain the formatting, formulae, subscripts, structures, graphics, etc.; and second, it is much easier to access and print them. All the students have to do is to go to the student workstation room in our building, double-click on the course directory, and then double-click on the exam they want to see. To print a copy, they simply select Print from the File menu. The DISadvantage of fileserver distribution is that it is available only from the departmental LAN, which can not be accessed from outside the department or the campus (for reasons having to do with software licenses). In fact, one reason for posting the old exams in this way was to give them a good reason to use our student workstation room more regularly - or to learn where it is if they have not discovered it yet. Tom O'Haver U. of Maryland ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 07:53:33 -0400 From: George Long Organization: Indiana University of Pennsylvania Subject: Re: Paper 11: Posting old exams What are the disadvantages of using E-mail to communicate with students? Undoubtedly, this type of communication is going to become much more prevalent in the future. I can see the possibility of whole courses being taught exclusively via E-mail, or at least in combination with video technology (as in paper 8). There would be many advantages to this scheme, many have been mentioned already. Could it be that asynchronous teaching will largley replace traditional methods? If it does, what does everybody think the downsides might be? George Long Indiana Univ. of PA. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 10:58:41 EDT From: "Frank M. Lanzafame" Subject: email with students One question I have regarding the use of email with students for exam keys, and similar materials, is the handling of subscripts and superscripts etc. I make fairly extensive use of multiple layers of text in my word processor (eg. conversion factors including scientific notation and squares and cubes of units...) Do those of you using email to transmit such materials to students have that capability in your email software (my VMS system handles straight ASCII text only), or do you move your text to a straight ASCII representation such as H2SO4, or better yet HPO4-2 ?? ----------------------------------------------------------- | Frank M. Lanzafame Department of Chemistry | | Monroe Community College 1000 East Henrietta Rd. | | Rochester, NY 14623 (716) 292-2000 Ext. 5130 | | Internet: flanzafame@eckert.acadcomp.monroecc.edu | ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 11:32:45 -0400 From: "Aline (Lindy) Harrison" Subject: e-mail exam answer posting Van Verth (canisius) posts exam answers on e-mail. My senior capstone is a writing intensive. Think I'll have them e-mail their papers to me...and I can correct them on line...then they can correct and resubmit without so much paper....and, as requested, I'll supply a way to do library search from Internet in a couple of days as soon as I find the papers among my stuff again. Lindy Harrison -- York College ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 11:39:10 -0500 From: Donald Peterson Subject: DISCUSSION OF PAPER 11 I have been a passive participant of this conference since it started. Since I am deaf, I do have to say that this is the first conference in which I have been able to participate fully and not feel disadvantaged in any way. The only negative aspects have been that I am not usually in my office during the summer and these discussions really eat up my disc quota. Gallaudet University has had e-mail for a long time, using a DEC-10 and now the VAX. Last year was the first time I used it for classroom use. This was for a 30-student General Chem course. At the beginning of the course, hard copy schedules and directions for using e-mail were distributed. After that everything from homework schedules, practice exams and general notices were sent out via email using a .DIS file containing account names for all of my students [those few who did not already have accounts got them fast]. While most had already had experience with email, it helped make them more computer literate. We have no problem with student workstations. There are stations scattered throughout the campus, as well as 20 in our Science Computer Lab. One great advantage is that I no longer have to keep hard copies for students who lose schedules and whatnot. I can simply send them another copy via email. A further advantage is that everything is in print. I do not denigrate in any way the sign language that we use for classroom communication, but the use of email does reinforce this communication. I'm sure that students who hear do not get everything that they should through hearing alone. I am puzzled as to why Dr. Snyder would need access to the students' directories on the VAX. Was this only with the Chemistry LAN? or with the general mainframe VAX? If the latter, I should think it would be a potential invasion of privacy, since the students (if they are anything like ours here) carry on a lot of personal conversation via email. Aside from that angle, isn't it a lot of bother to get into 28 different account to check? I would use a separate account for the Instructor (a course account as opposed to a personal account) and have the students sent email to that course account. Again, I thank all of you for these discussions on all of the papers. I have enjoyed their frankness and wit. Don Peterson ======================================================================= Donald O. Peterson ? 202-651-5385 (V/TDD) Department of Chemistry + - 202-651-5463 (FAX) Gallaudet University * dopeterson@gallua.bitnet Washington, D.C. 20002 ~~~ dopeterson@gallua.gallaudet.edu ======================================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 11:44:42 -0400 From: theresa Julia Zielinski Organization: University at Buffalo Subject: e-mail for students Prof. Snyder has made a valuable suggestion in proposing wider use of e-mail in teaching. Using e-mail is an important skill to use in teaching science at all levels. For the science student it is a tool that they will need in their future work. And as several participants pointed out, there are various ways that we can use this tool to entice students to use it. For the non-science majors it is also important and for the same reasons that it is important for the science majors. You all may be aware that many liberal arts courses - especially writing courses - on some campuses are already using e-mail or some other form of electronic communication to process student work and provide feed back to students for on going projects. When e-mail is not used then diskettes are a useful way to reduce paper load. All students need some enticement for learning an important tool. These take the form of a grade, extra credit, or access to important information. Of the three the last is probably the most important. This one satisfies a need perceived by the student. However, even if something is perceived as needed it will be given up or postponed if access is too difficult. Furthermore, there is always the question of what is appropriate for inclusion in any particular course. Many items could be listed for a non-science major taking a chemistry course. Courses such as chemistry of polymers, food chemistry, forensic chemistry arise out of the desire to improve the science literacy of our students. This then leads to the consideration of what science literacy implies. Surely we would all agree that one or two courses in science does not make for a scientifically literate person. Perhaps consideration of this issue would be put into perspective by considering the following question that Prof. Nelson posed at one of his critical thinking workshops. The question is: "What do you want your student to remember about science when she is governor of your state 20 years from now?" When put into this light it becomes clear to me that no one individual fact is very important in the push to make a person scientifically literate. The focus shifts, in my opinion, to generating a positive attitude and a glimmer of awareness about science in students in such a way that the student is open to consider further reading and learning about science once they are out of the formal educational stream. There are many examples of successful courses that accomplish this goal. Some of these are at small four and two year colleges and some are at larger schools. The important thing is to match the learning experience with the mission of the school and the mission of the program while keeping in mind the long term needs of the students. It does no good to offer a great course full of facts and interesting topics if the students after the course never read about science again. As the 1990 NSF sponsored Sigma Xi report suggests, we should avoid offering courses that represent science as static bodies of knowledge to be memorized. In light of this then it becomes important to develop in students the awareness that they can figure things out for themselves and do things that scientists do. Prof. Snyder accomplishes this objective in one way by using e-mail as an effective teaching strategy. He further improves student engagement with the subject by designing their own exam questions. Assigning points toward the final score is an appropriate strategy for increasing compliance of the students on this activity. However, as we all know, no strategy ever ensures complete compliance from students. Prof. Snyder asks: "Is there a body of instructional software that is particularly suited to the non-science major?" I think that we can use the same software as we use for the science majors. For example, one of my students asked about the shape of a large ring hydrocarbon of 15 atoms. Was it puckered? After class I thought about how I would illustrate this to the student most effectively. I could have constructed a model with balls and sticks or some other modeling kit. Instead I turned to my little PC and started up my little modeling program. Next day I took the PC to class and we examined the model. There were several interesting outcomes from this exercise. First, the students were surprised that in a little financially strapped school like ours we could "do molecular modeling" on a computer. Second, it was a wonderful way to introduce how some of the drug companies do research on the structure of drugs and try to design new ones. Third, students who are non-science majors appreciate the same toys that science majors appreciate. Another example may give others some inspiration. As part of a food chemistry course I used a nutrition program for analyzing foods and menus. The program is called Nutrition Wizard. Students liked using this type of software. It was practical and satisfied one of my teaching objectives - to get students to analyze data about the foods that they eat. When this is coupled to a library exercise using standard nutrition references and a spreadsheet project, the students are presented with the opportunity of integrating information and tools in a useful critical thinking promoting fashion. I join Dr. Snyder in being interested in hearing about other examples of using standard software for the non science major. Theresa Julia Zielinski Niagara University Roszieli@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu Chemistry Department Niagara University NY 14109 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 11:48:43 -0400 From: Jack Martin Miller Subject: Re: email with students If you are using Eudora on a Mac or NuPop on a PC you "attach documents" typically MS Word or WordPerfect with formatted chemistry sybols and diagrams etc. They both use the same bin/hex encoding so at the other end you get readable files for your word processor. From a Mac you can easily send both a Mac and DOS version, or the Macs can read the PC version. The actual e-mail message just tells the recipient what is in the word processor document which they are asked to save on receipt or it may open automatically --- just like getting papers for this conference with Fetchit. Three cheears for PCs and Macs compared to the more expensive less friendly VMS or UNIX systems which can do it to but usually at a greater cost. Jack Martin Miller Professor of Chemistry ex-Chair, Computer Science Brock University, St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada, L2S 3A1. Phone (416) 688 5550, ext 3402 FAX (416) 682 9020 e-mail jmiller@sandcastle.cosc.brocku.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 12:28:27 -0400 From: "CARL H. SNYDER, CHEMISTRY; CSNYDER@UMIAMI" Subject: Re: DISCUSSION OF PAPER 11 Donald Peterson writes: >30-student General Chem course. At the beginning of the course, hard copy >schedules and directions for using e-mail were distributed. After that >everything from homework schedules, practice exams and general notices were >sent out via email using a .DIS file containing account names for all of my >students [those few who did not already have accounts got them fast]. While I, too, distributed hard copies of the schedule and other matters in the first class period, then put them onto the lan. I did note that that whenever I looked in on the students in the computer room the *only* files I ever saw on the screen were the review examinations. And that invariably was just before the scheduled examinations. ..... >One great advantage is that I no longer have to keep hard copies for students >who lose schedules and whatnot. I can simply send them another copy via email. A fine, fine use of e-mail, or of lan files, as far as I'm concerned. ..... >I am puzzled as to why Dr. Snyder would need access to the students' >directories on the VAX. Was this only with the Chemistry LAN? or with the >general mainframe VAX? If the latter, I should think it would be a potential >invasion of privacy, since the students (if they are anything like ours here) >carry on a lot of personal conversation via email. Aside from that angle, >isn't it a lot of bother to get into 28 different account to check? I would use >a separate account for the Instructor (a course account as opposed to a >personal account) and have the students sent email to that course account. This was only with the VAX. Here's why. Dr. Shelley, co-author of the paper, had previous experience using e-mail in a computer course he teaches. He found that his students would submit any specific piece of work to him repeatedly by e-mail with each submission a refinement of the previous one, up to the deadline for the work. Naturally, each submission came to him via e-mail and he had to scan or read each successive submission. His idea was for students to place all their files in their own directories, and for me to look into the students' directories after the deadline for submission had passed and read *only* the latest file for any given assignment. This in itself didn't penalize any student for repeated submission, yet saved me a lot of work reading obsolete submissions. Furthermore, after I had read, graded, and commented on each student's work I needed only to save it in that student's file under an appropriate filename. The student found it there the next time he or she logged in. Yes, it was a lot of work and bother, but I'm not convinced there's a better way to do it. I'd appreciate any suggestions anyone may have for an improvment on this process. As for issues of privacy, the student accounts were set up specifically for this couse and with the students' knowledge that I could read anything in the files. I don't know if that constitutes an invasion of privacy but in my own opinion that's not an issue here. If any particular student wanted to use the VAX account for his or her own correspondence, that was up to the student. Carl H. Snyder Internet: CSNYDER@umiami.IR.Miami.EDU Chemistry Department Bitnet: CSNYDER@umiami University of Miami Phone: (305)-284-2174 Coral Gables, FL 33124 FAX: (305)-285-4571 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 12:37:00 EST From: "DR. LISA KINTNER CHEMISTRY DEPARTMENT, UPJ, JOHNSTOWN PA" Subject: Paper # 11 and EMail in Teaching Carl Snyder's question: "Can E-Mail become a useful supplement to office conferences?" generated some interesting responses. I saw some suggestions that I would like to see introduced here at UPJ. Larry Rosenhein, Indiana State University/Terre Haute, suggests: >I see a lot of potential here. Besides providing another outlet for >chewing on the material, creating a sense of community, and >developing those all-important communication skills, this activity >might simply add to the interest of being in the course itself. > One other thing that e-mail could be used for ... is posting old exams from the course. Two recent articles in J. Chem. Ed on Writing in the Chemistry curriculum (Sunderwirth, S.G. J.Chem.Ed. 1993 70(6), 474-475; and Cooper, M.M. J.Chem.Ed. 1993 70(6), 476-477) had ideas that I see as easily translated into an EMail "plan" Lindy Harrison, York College of PA, describes > a senior capstone course....as a part of Internet acquisition of >library info....I will also set up a notes system in which I will give >assignments which they can pick up only in e-mail notes system >....thus forcing them into it. James E. Van Verth Canisius College, Buffalo, NY, is one of many who described the >posting solutions to current exams on the network server. The >consist of scanned copies of hand-marked tests, and thus have to be >stored as paint files. They are low resolution to save space, and are >jagged, but readable. Students clamor for them if I don't post them >in a timely fashion. Barry Rowe (browe@ncsa.uiuc.edu) tells us that we would be wise to introduce EMail as early as possible. . . >What are you going to do with students who are used to email >access in high school and demand it in college? We have an ISDN >line and I expect most high schools to have it in 5 years. Harry E. Pence (BITNET: PENCEHE@SNYONEVA) described an application similar to Lindy Harrison's, >Last semester I introduced electronic communications in my senior >seminar class for the first time. My main focus was teaching them >to use telnet to access Chem Abstracts, but I also asked each >student to sign on to a chemistry-related bulletin board and write a >one-page report on one of the threads on that bulletin board. After reading these comments I am prompted to circulate Carl's paper and the comment to my department colleagues and request ideas for applications of EMail in our chem classes. I expect that I will attempt to use it extensively next spring when I teach advanced inorganic. Perhaps with another summer to play with the idea, I might introduce it into my freshman level gen chem and prep-chem courses. My own experience with EMail started as a post-doc. Another post-doc who had used BITNET previously joined the group and motivated everyone to get BITNET accounts. That year I helped organize an international conference via BITNET and found that it was a much more efficient method to communicate with my old grad school friends. My first teaching job (fall 1990) was at a mid-size four-year school which had a VAX and was the end-node of a larger VAX network. Two of the chemistry faculty had VAX accounts, but rarely used them. As I began to make inquiries about EMail, I found that I was at the pioneering edge for that institution. Although I was only there for a year, I had a student doing research under me and he was to continue after I left; he was to communicate his results via EMail. Therefore I instructed him to get a VAX account and gave him some basic instruction. Once he started sending me EMail, all of the chem students who knew me started sending EMail - - it caught on like wild-fire. When I arrived at UPJ (fall 1991), I found that although Pitt has a good system, only a small fraction of the faculty on this campus take full advantage of it. I learned a great deal about the availability of information over the INTERNET by participating in Richard Smith's "Navigating the INTENET" workshop last fall. This conference has provided unlimited opportunities for learning. What about students? Quite by accident one of my genchem students ( a comp sci major) got my address and started sending messages asking for clarification on class assignments, etc. At the time I was intrigued by the student's resourcefulness. I have noticed that many of my students will pick up the phone and call me in the office to ask questions. I suspect that if they knew they cold do the same via EMail they would. When I teach advanced inorganic in the spring (5 to 10 students) I have them use ChemAbstracts via STN and the library's on-line database. Some of these kids have VAX accounts and I quickly show them how they can gain access to other information sources from the computer in my office. These kids usually get hooked and start to use electronic communication. I suspect that with a requirement that they must use it and some basic instruction (Carl Snyder's on-line tutorials are nice!!) it would work well. It's just like my 13-year-old and the roller coasters . . .give them something they find exciting that appeals to their visual senses and has a resemblance to the electronic world around them -- and they will use it because it's "fun"! Finally, to answer Carl's question directly, >Are there better carrots to use than extra credit to induce >students to learn and use electronic communication? After reading the other responses, I have come to the conclusion that we need to make electronic communication an integral part of our courses. Some excellent suggestions have been made. I suspect that there are others. Barry Rowe (browe@ncsa.uiuc.edu) made the point that soon our freshmen will almost expect it. Let's not disappoint them -- rather let's challenge them! Lisa Kintner Department of Chemistry University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown Johnstown, PA KINTNER@VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 13:27:35 -0400 From: "James E. Van Verth" Subject: Re: e-mail exam answer posting >Van Verth (canisius) posts exam answers on e-mail. My senior capstone is a >writing intensive. Think I'll have them e-mail their papers to me...and I can >correct them on line...then they can correct and resubmit without so much >paper....and, as requested, I'll supply a way to do library search from >Internet in a couple of days as soon as I find the papers among my stuff again. > >Lindy Harrison -- York College Correction: I don't post answers on e-mail; I put them on the server for "public" access. The reason being that the answers are hand written, and must be provided as graphics files. That, of course, does not affect your excellent plans, Lindy. I believe that some word processors - I think MSWord - have ways of attaching separate editorial comments to documents. James E. Van Verth Department of Chemistry VANVERTH@CANISIUS.BITNET Canisius College, Buffalo, NY 14208 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 13:33:37 -0400 From: "James E. Van Verth" Subject: Re: e-mail exam answer posting Just as I sent the last comments, I came to the realization that, of course, word processor documents as such can't be sent by e-mail, either. Never mind... James E. Van Verth Department of Chemistry VANVERTH@CANISIUS.BITNET Canisius College, Buffalo, NY 14208 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 15:16:45 -0400 From: Robert Nelson Subject: Re: Paper 11: Posting old exams While using e-mail to communicate with students is a laudable idea, not every instutution has sufficient access to e-mail and/or terminals for all students to have convenient use. In addition, it discriminates against students who must commute to campus since their already long day must be extended to find a terminal and check their e-mail. We cannot even get our students to check their snail-mail boxes on a regular basis. As far as posting old exams, I prefer to place them on reserve in the library or include them in a packet the students purchase at the start of the term. This is particularly important since figures and chemical formulas do not "translate" well. Robert N. Nelson, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Chemistry Chemistry - 8064 Georgia Southern University Statesboro, GA 30460 912-681-5675 rnnelson@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 14:32:05 PST From: "Edward H. Piepmeier" Subject: paper 11 >George Long writes: I can see the possibility >of whole courses being taught exclusively via E-mail,..Could >it be that asynchronous teaching will largely replace >traditional methods? If it does, what does everybody think >the downsides might be? -------------------------------------------------- I am an email enthusiast, and I have seen it catch on quickly. But that has made me wonder where are we going to get the computer storage, network time, and personal time to read and answer all communications? Our mainframe email accounts have a 500-Kbyte limit and my local network manager feels that this is adequate (although he has not yet imposed a limit). I have had little trouble transferring 5-Megabyte image files via ftp, but what will happen after traffic increases exponentially? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 17:56:02 -0500 From: Alton Banks Subject: Re: e-mail exam answer posting >Just as I sent the last comments, I came to the realization that, of >course, word processor documents as such can't be sent by e-mail, either. >Never mind... > >James E. Van Verth Department of Chemistry >VANVERTH@CANISIUS.BITNET Canisius College, Buffalo, NY 14208 ............................................... I would like to add a bit of experience to this topic. It is possible to have a word-processor document saved as an RTF file, encoded (with BinHex or uuencode) and sent via e-mail. This process is highly susceptible to local computing environments. NCSU Chem. Dept. has a departmental RISC6000 to which all faculty can be attached. I use a MAC for most of my word processor work. I use EUDORA to have my MAC communicate with the RISC6000. I can send a file--handled as described above--to a colleague --or for that matter to another Internet address, the recipient decodes it (BinHex or uudecode) and can open it within his/her word processor. It's a hassle the first time you do it, but the learning curve is pleasant ! Graphics obviously have their own problems, but as discussants at this conference know GIF files can be used to solve those problems. Alton J. Banks, Chemistry Electronic address: banks@chemdept.chem.ncsu.edu Mailing address: North Carolina State University Department of Chemistry Box 8204 Raleigh, NC 27695-8204 Phone (919) 515-2546 Fax (919) 515-5079 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 21:34:10 EDT From: Jim Holler Subject: Re: Paper 11: Posting old exams In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 3 Aug 1993 15:16:45 -0400 from Email is not for everyone .. now. However, it is just a matter of time. All students are going to need to know how to communicate in this way. There are certainly many reasons of convenience for using email in a course setting, but in my opinion, this is not the most important reason for using it. By requiring students to become familiar and comfortable with email and other as yet unknown forms of communciation, we will better prepare them for life in an optoelectronic world. On Tue, 3 Aug 1993 15:16:45 -0400 Robert Nelson said: >While using e-mail to communicate with students is a laudable idea, >not every instutution has sufficient access to e-mail and/or terminals >for all students to have convenient use. In addition, it discriminates >against students who must commute to campus since their already long >day must be extended to find a terminal and check their e-mail. >We cannot even get our students to check their snail-mail boxes on a >regular basis. > As far as posting old exams, I prefer to place them on reserve >in the library or include them in a packet the students purchase at the start >of the term. This is particularly important since figures and chemical >formulas do not "translate" well. > >Robert N. Nelson, Ph.D. >Associate Professor of Chemistry >Chemistry - 8064 Georgia Southern University Statesboro, GA 30460 >912-681-5675 rnnelson@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu Jim Holler Phone: 606-257-5884 Department of Chemistry FAX: 606-258-1069 University of Kentucky Email: HOLLER@UKCC.UKY.EDU Lexington, KY 40506 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 22:13:49 CDT From: Brad Thompson Subject: Distributing Grades by E-mail, etc Regarding distributing grades via networks: ========================================== << Follow-up on Peter Gold's msg. >> This very unglamorous use of networks (e-mail or otherwise) is popular with students, and a really sweet carrot. I've worked it out in two environments: * At the University of Toledo, on an old PDP-11 network under RSTS, we ran a program called MYGRADE. We had a gradebook program from which we could export grade reports that students could get from any network terminal. Most chemistry faculty distributed exam results this way -- often within an hour of the grading. We would have final course grades in general chemistry "on the net" within a day after the final was given. Lots of students asked why all departments couldn't do this. * At Gustavus Adolphus this past spring we made the first use of a similar program for Novell Netware PC networks. In its first test this program reported only results from our individualized- homework program, but in principle it will handle any table of of grades in comma-quote-delimited form. When we have a version for general use (this summer, I trust) I'll put a note on CHEMED-L and PHYS-L. Two observations from experience: -------------------------------- (1) Student response. A major advantage to grade distribution by this means is that students can easily be given complete, up-to-date printouts of their grade records, with such comparison standards as the faculty member wishes. Students really appreciate this! Many of them don't (perhaps don't know how to) keep up on their status. I have generally posted advisory target score totals for A's, B's, etc. Oh, and faculty members' grade records do occasionally get screwed up, too! With a procedure like this, students will tell you! (2) Student identification. Grades should not, and need not, be distributed (by computer or otherwise) using part of each student's SS number, or their student ID, or the like. I'm not sure that one is totally in the clear vis-a-vis federal privacy laws even with students' permission, unless (a) you "inform them of their rights", and (b) make grades equally available by other means. There's a simple alternative: just pass out a code for this specific purpose! It's simple to do -- four- or five-letter combination is adequate. If codes are generated randomly, leave out vowels in the middle -- this avoids most objectionable words. Both at Toledo and at GAC we devised programs that would allow the students to "register" their codes and enter their names and student ID numbers. For some, this simple program was their first computer experience! At Toledo we used this to get their names into our gradebook files. A labor-saving scheme, and they almost always spell their names correctly. H. Bradford Thompson [Brad] Scholar in Residence, Chemistry & Physics bradt@gac.edu Gustavus Adolphus College Saint Peter, Minnesota 56082 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 23:40:44 -0500 Reply-To: Carolyn Sweeney Judd From: Carolyn Sweeney Judd Subject: Answers to Paper 12 - Short Questions In-Reply-To: <9307271246.AA17379@umd5.umd.edu> NOTE: ANSWERS ARE IN CAPITAL LETTERS On Tue, 27 Jul 1993, Donald Rosenthal wrote: > Paper 12 - Short Questions > > THE COMPUTER CO-OP: TEACHING ORGANIC CHEMISTRY ON A CONFERENCE IN AN > INTERDISCIPLINARY MACINTOSH LAB > by Carolyn S. Judd and Robert G. Ford > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- Sections 2.2 and 2.3: > a. I assume the "lecture" actually consisted of these three > activities. > Is that correct? YES. > > b. Did you consider two 1.5 hour sessions or three 1 hour sessions? > Don't students get tired in such a long session? YES, 3 HOUR LECTURES ARE FAR TOO LONG, BUT BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF OUR COMMUNITY COLLEGE, THE 0 COMMUNITING DISTANCES, AND THE LARGE PERCENTAGE OF WORKING STUDENTS, WE DO NOT FORSEE ANY CHANGE IN THE NEAR FUTURE. > c. Were students expected to read an assignment prior to class? > Did they read or review the assignment after class? > Do you have any information on how they allocated out-of-class > time to this course? STUDENTS WERE EXPECTED TO READ THE CHAPTER PRIOR TO CLASS. AND THE STUDENTS WERE ASSIGNED MANY OF THE PROBLEMS AT THE END OF EACH CHAPTER OF THE TEXT. THESE PROBLEMS WERE REVIEWED UPON REQUEST. STUDENTS ALSO USED THE STUDY GUIDE WHICH HAD SOLUTIONS TO ALL THE PROBLEMS. THERE WAS AN ATTEMPT TO INCLUDE SOME REVIEW OF THE PRIOR CHAPTER WITHIN THE NEW PROBLEMS FOR EACH NEW CHAPTER DISCUSSED OVER PACERFORUM. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > 2. > PacerForum . . supports graphics and sound as well as text. > > . . They would . . scroll through the opening messages > > from the instructor . . (section 3.4.1) > > When they entered the classroom, students were presented with a > > short summary of the material assigned for the day (prepared in > > advance) . . (section 3.4.2) > > a. Were the opening messages oral (in sound) or in text? OPENING MESSAGES WERE IN TEXT. > > b. How was sound used - by the students? - by the instructor? > How much time was devoted to PacerForum sound each week? MAINLY FOR FUN. THE FIRST TIME WAS WHEN THE ANNOUNCEMENT THAT IT WAS TIME FOR A BREAK. THE STUDENT HAD TO PRESS THE ICON SHAPED LIKE A MEGAPHONE TO HEAR THE MESSAGE. THEN SOME STUDENTS BEGAN TO RECORD MUSIC, AND REPLAY IT. THIS WAS GREAT FUN, BUT NOT EXPLORED FOR ITS TEACHING UTILITY. > c. Was the short summary supplied as hard copy or via PacerForum? SUMMARIES WERE ON PACERFORUM. ANY STUDENT COULD COPY ANY PART (OR ALL) OR THE SESSION. > d. Does PacerForum make the handling of graphics easy? > How much graphics did you create for this course? YES, GRAPHICS ARE HANDLED EASILY BY PACERFORUM. STUDENTS WOULD PRESS THE ICON TO ACCESS THE GRAPHIC. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > 3. (Section 3.4.3) > > Each student would be given a slightly different response, > > based on the response he or she had provided. > > During the course of the class session, the teacher would send > > responses; all would see these as they were posted. > > With sixteen students wasn't this rather confusing? THESE WAS GREAT! SURELY NO MORE CONFUSING THAN ANSWERING QUESTIONS IN A REGULAR CLASSROOM. THE BIG DIFFERENCE WAS THAT ALL STUDENTS GOT ATTENTION, NOT JUST THE COURAGEOUS ONES. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > 4. (Section 3.4.5) > I am not an organic chemist and I probably saw an early version of > Beaker. I agree that it is a remarkable program. However, the > version that I saw didn't always give the correct answer. (For > example - pKs). > > Is this still true? > Doesn't this cause a problem? INDEED SOME OF THE ANSWERS GENERATED BY BEAKER ARE NOT CORRECT - BUT STUDENTS LOVE THE PROGRAM, AND UNDERSTAND READILY THAT IT HAS LIMITATIONS. THE BIG LESSON THAT THEY LEARN IS THAT BEAKER CAN DO A LOT, AND IT DOES NOT COST A LOT. SOON THE STUDENTS REALIZES THAT MAYBE S(HE) CAN DO AS WELL AS THIS INEXPENSIVE PROGRAM. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > 5. (Section 6.6) > a. Was or will this course be taken by chemistry majors? MOST OF OUR STUDENTS ARE BONING UP FOR ENTRY TO PROFESSIONAL SCHOOLS, MEDICAL, PHARMACY, NURSING, ETC. WE HAVE PRECIOUS FEW CHEMISTRY MAJORS. > b. > How much material can be cut from a course without discrediting > > the course? > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > 6. a. Computers can assist in helping to provide a better understanding > of the three dimensional character of molecules. Have you > considered using molecular modelling software in the course? WE HAVE ORDERED CHEM 3DPLUS AND HAVE A NICE QUADRO, AND A MEANS TO DISPLAY THE MODELS FOR ALL TO SEE. > b. Have you considered using computer simulation of qual organic > software like MacSQUALOR or MacQual? WE WOULD LIKE SOME MORE INFORMATION ABOUT HOW OTHERS USE THESESOFTWARE PROGRAMS. > c. Have you considered using Stan Smith's organic chemistry software? WE HAVE ORDERED AND RECEIVED A COPY OVER THE SUMMER, AND WILL USE THIS FALL. > d. Have you considered using Andrew Montana's award winning software > involving organic reaction mechanisms? THE ORGANIC REACTION MECHANISMS SOFTWARE NOTED IN THIS PAPER SHOULD HAVE MENTIONED BOTH AUTHORS: ANDREW MONTANA AND JEFFREY R. BUELL. TRULY THIS SOFTWARE IS A BEAUTIFUL EXAMPLE OF DOING SOMETHING BETTER WITH COMPUTERS. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Carolyn S. Judd and Robert G. Ford Central College, Houston Community College System 1300 Holman Houston TX 77004 713-630-1103 cjudd@tenet.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 23:54:28 -0500 Reply-To: Carolyn Sweeney Judd From: Carolyn Sweeney Judd Subject: Answers to Questions- Paper 12 In-Reply-To: NOTE:ANSWERS ARE IN CAPITAL LETTERS On Fri, 30 Jul 1993, CHARLES SUNDIN, CHAIR, CHEMISTRY wrote: > 1. You stated that you have 5 sections of Organic per semester. There > were 16 students in your "group". > > What is the size of a typical "section" or what is the total organic > enrollment? TYPICAL CLASSES ARE FROM 15 TO 30 STUDENTS. > > 2. What is your normal teaching load per semester? NORMAL TEACHING LOAD IS THREE FOUR-HOUR CLASSES; EACH CONSISTING OF A 3-HOUR LECTURE AND A 3-HOUR LABORATORY PER WEEK. > 3. Will you continue this mode of instruction and with all of your > students? YES, WITH THE MODIFICATIONS MADE SO THAT AUDITORY LEARNERS ARE NOT LEFT OUT; I.E., SUPPLEMENTING THE TOTAL COMPUTER APPROACH WITH ABOUT 1/3 STANDARD LECTURE. > 4. Will the other organic instructors at your campus and in your > "system" adopt this mode of instruction? MANY OF THE ORGANIC INSTRUCTORS ARE INTERESTED IN PORTIONS. I BELIEVE THAT SOON THE READY AVAILABILITY AND ALSO THE OPEN LAB TIME WILL ATTRACT STUDENTS ON THEIR OWN. > 5. Assuming you are responsible for only organic lecture and lab as > your full time teaching position, how many students do you think you > could teach (being at least as effective as you were before this > experiment) using this mode of instruction? CAROLYN JUDD TAUGHT ONLY ONE ORGANIC CLASS DURING THE SPRING, AS WELL AS ONE INTRODUCTORY CLASS FOR STUDENTS WITHOUT HIGH SCHOOL CHEMISTRY. RELEASE TIME FOR THE OTHER PART OF THE FULL-TIME LOAD WAS GIVEN BY A GRANT FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF A PROTON NMR TUTOR, WHICH WILL INCLUDE QUICK-TIME MOVIES OF RESEARCHERS AND ACTUAL INSTRUMENTS. THIS GRANT IS UNDERWRITTEN BY OUR OFFICE OF INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY, WHICH ACTS AS A SOURCE FOR FACULTY DEVELOPMENT OF COMPUTER PROGRAMS. Do you think adequate software is easily availablevfor the Intel > platform for this mode of instruction? VERY GOOD SOFTWARE IS AVAILABLE. HOWEVER, THERE IS LESS SOFTWARE AVAILABLE THAT IS APPROPRIATE FOR THE FIRST SEMESTER OF AN ORGANIC COURSE. Carolyn S. Judd and Robert G. Ford Central College, Houston Community College System 1300 Holman Houston TX 77004 713-630-1103 cjudd@tenet.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 06:32:44 -0400 From: "Thomas C. O'Haver" Subject: Re: Paper 11 Baubles for Liberal Arts Students In-Reply-To: <9308021920.AB26643@umd5.umd.edu> Terrell Wilson: > Our liberal arts students are not like us, and that is one of the > hardest things for science teachers to understand. A real eye-opener for me was Sheila Tobias' book "They're Not Dumb; They're Different". The book describes an experiment in which several non-science graduate students (and one professor) were paid to take first-year science-major chemistry and physics courses and to keep a detailed journal reporting their reactions to the course and their observations of their fellow students. Most of them found the courses to be intellectually sterile, obsessed with quantitative answers, and to provide little opportunity for actual discussion with the teacher or with other students. Tom O'Haver U. of Maryland ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 07:05:28 -0400 From: "Thomas C. O'Haver" Subject: Re: email with students In-Reply-To: <9308031758.AA13204@umd5.umd.edu> > Frank M. Lanzafame > One question I have regarding the use of email with students for exam > keys, and similar materials, is the handling of subscripts and > superscripts etc....such as H2SO4, or better yet HPO4-2 ?? 1. One way is to use three lines for each line of "chemistry": -2 H SO HPO 2 4 4 It's harder to write and to edit, but it's unambiguous, platform independent, and easier to read than H2SO4 and HPO4-2. 2. As several people have suggested, you can text-encode a binary document, expecting the recipient to decode it, but this is a hassle unless you are using a LAN mail system or a specific mail client that automates the process. 3. As others have suggested, you can distribute binary documents via LAN fileserver rather than by mail, but this requires that the students use workstations on the LAN, whereas they can access e-mail from home if they have a computer and a modem. A LAN can be the most transparent way to distribute formatted documents electronically, as it requires only a knowledge of directory navigation and file saving or copying, which any computer user will already know. One note: We use our departmental LAN fileserver (AppleShare) for submission of completed assignments in some courses by creating "drop folders", which are folders (Mac-talk for subdirectories) for which students have write access but not read access - that is, a "write-only" folder. Students can copy (drag) their completed files into this folder, but can not open the folder to look at other students' work. I have seen this idea used even in 5th grade computer labs. Tom O'Haver U. of Maryland ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 09:05:40 -0400 From: Jack Martin Miller Subject: Re: Paper 11: Posting old exams >While using e-mail to communicate with students is a laudable idea, >not every instutution has sufficient access to e-mail and/or terminals >for all students to have convenient use. In addition, it discriminates >against students who must commute to campus since their already long >day must be extended to find a terminal and check their e-mail. >We cannot even get our students to check their snail-mail boxes on a >regular basis. That's the nice thing about e-mail -- more students these days seem to have computers at home than faculty -- and many have a modem -- they can check their e-mail from home. > As far as posting old exams, I prefer to place them on reserve >in the library or include them in a packet the students purchase at the start >of the term. This is particularly important since figures and chemical >formulas do not "translate" well. Don't put the exams in the body of the e-mail message but rather in an attachment. The attached word processor document can contain formulae, graphs etc. Minimal PCs or Macs as terminals can handle this and the software is free or very inexpensive for universities and colleges. > >Robert N. Nelson, Ph.D. >Associate Professor of Chemistry >Chemistry - 8064 Georgia Southern University Statesboro, GA 30460 >912-681-5675 rnnelson@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu Jack Martin Miller Professor of Chemistry ex-Chair, Computer Science Brock University, St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada, L2S 3A1. Phone (416) 688 5550, ext 3402 FAX (416) 682 9020 e-mail jmiller@sandcastle.cosc.brocku.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 09:10:24 -0400 From: Jack Martin Miller Subject: Re: paper 11 > >George Long writes: I can see the possibility > >of whole courses being taught exclusively via E-mail,..Could > >it be that asynchronous teaching will largely replace > >traditional methods? If it does, what does everybody think > >the downsides might be? > -------------------------------------------------- > I am an email enthusiast, and I have seen it catch on quickly. > But that has made me wonder where are we going to get the > computer storage, network time, and personal time to read and > answer all communications? Our mainframe email accounts have > a 500-Kbyte limit and my local network manager feels that this > is adequate (although he has not yet imposed a limit). I have > had little trouble transferring 5-Megabyte image files via > ftp, but what will happen after traffic increases > exponentially? The trick is to keep your e-mail downloaded frequently to your Mac or PC where you are unlimited and with disks at such a low cost there is no problem with central server limits unless you are away on hollidays -- I came back after 12 days yesterday to find 170 messages occupying several mB. As the traffic goes up, network bandwidth will be pushed up. Ethernet is migrating from 10 MHz to 100. FDDI is 100 MHz. All on cheap unshielded twisted pair. New and faster standards are being developed. Jack Martin Miller Professor of Chemistry ex-Chair, Computer Science Brock University, St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada, L2S 3A1. Phone (416) 688 5550, ext 3402 FAX (416) 682 9020 e-mail jmiller@sandcastle.cosc.brocku.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 09:15:18 -0400 From: Jack Martin Miller Subject: Re: e-mail exam answer posting >>Just as I sent the last comments, I came to the realization that, of >>course, word processor documents as such can't be sent by e-mail, either. >>Never mind... >> >>James E. Van Verth Department of Chemistry >>VANVERTH@CANISIUS.BITNET Canisius College, Buffalo, NY 14208 >............................................... >I would like to add a bit of experience to this topic. It is possible to >have a word-processor document saved as an RTF file, encoded (with BinHex >or uuencode) and sent via e-mail. This process is highly susceptible to >local computing environments. NCSU Chem. Dept. has a departmental RISC6000 >to which all faculty can be attached. I use a MAC for most of my word >processor work. I use EUDORA to have my MAC communicate with the RISC6000. > I can send a file--handled as described above--to a colleague --or for >that matter to another Internet address, the recipient decodes it (BinHex >or uudecode) and can open it within his/her word processor. >It's a hassle the first time you do it, but the learning curve is pleasant ! >Graphics obviously have their own problems, but as discussants at this >conference know GIF files can be used to solve those problems. > With Eudora just Attach Document, and if you don't know if the recipient is using a Mac or a PC save the Mac document from word or WordPerfect in DOS format on your Mac which can still be opened by the Mac or by anyone else with Word or Wordperfect. WP files are a bit nasty in that they don't always translate well to other word processors. Eudora does the binhex for you automatically and someone at the other end with Eudora or NuPop on a PC just receives it and it decodes automaticlally. Nothing fancey, no special precautions, just use the features built into the user friedly software & it will be invisible to the novice. My wife, a Professor of Fine ARts got the hang of it in 5 minutes. >Alton J. Banks, Chemistry > >Electronic address: banks@chemdept.chem.ncsu.edu > >Mailing address: >North Carolina State University >Department of Chemistry >Box 8204 >Raleigh, NC 27695-8204 > >Phone (919) 515-2546 >Fax (919) 515-5079 Jack Martin Miller Professor of Chemistry ex-Chair, Computer Science Brock University, St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada, L2S 3A1. Phone (416) 688 5550, ext 3402 FAX (416) 682 9020 e-mail jmiller@sandcastle.cosc.brocku.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 09:23:37 -0400 From: Jack Martin Miller Subject: Re: email with students >> Frank M. Lanzafame >> One question I have regarding the use of email with students for exam >> keys, and similar materials, is the handling of subscripts and >> superscripts etc....such as H2SO4, or better yet HPO4-2 ?? > >1. One way is to use three lines for each line of "chemistry": > > -2 > H SO HPO > 2 4 4 > >It's harder to write and to edit, but it's unambiguous, platform >independent, and easier to read than H2SO4 and HPO4-2. > >2. As several people have suggested, you can text-encode a binary >document, expecting the recipient to decode it, but this is a hassle >unless you are using a LAN mail system or a specific mail client that >automates the process. Nothing special is required -- just shareware if you are on Macs or PCs. The mail lives in a normal UNIX e-mail account (or VMS for some people or even an old mainframe) on a server somewhere - not necessarily on campus and you log into it from either a campus network or from home and read your mail on your personal computer. > >3. As others have suggested, you can distribute binary documents via LAN >fileserver rather than by mail, but this requires that the students use >workstations on the LAN, whereas they can access e-mail from home if they >have a computer and a modem. A LAN can be the most transparent way to >distribute formatted documents electronically, as it requires only a >knowledge of directory navigation and file saving or copying, which any >computer user will already know. It works just fine for me from home as well as at the office where I'm on the lan. It can be tedious unless you have a 9600 BAUD or faster modem at each end. > >One note: We use our departmental LAN fileserver (AppleShare) for >submission of completed assignments in some courses by creating "drop >folders", which are folders (Mac-talk for subdirectories) for which >students have write access but not read access - that is, a "write-only" >folder. Students can copy (drag) their completed files into this folder, >but can not open the folder to look at other students' work. I have >seen this idea used even in 5th grade computer labs. In the Mac world AppleTalk Remote Access is great -- you can access servers on campus from home just like on your local area network including use of softwre located on the server. At 9600 BAUD it can take a while for a program to open (5 minutes or more) though for small applications there is no problem. It's great for Eudora based e-mail and Turbo-Gopher -- look up a FAX number in australia and then FAX from the powerbook. > >Tom O'Haver >U. of Maryland Jack Martin Miller Professor of Chemistry ex-Chair, Computer Science Brock University, St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada, L2S 3A1. Phone (416) 688 5550, ext 3402 FAX (416) 682 9020 e-mail jmiller@sandcastle.cosc.brocku.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 09:46:00 EST From: "DR. LISA KINTNER CHEMISTRY DEPARTMENT, UPJ, JOHNSTOWN PA" Subject: Paper 12 Answers to Authors' Questions FILENAME: PAPER12 DISC CONTENTS: ANSWERS TO AUTHORS' QUESTIONS IN PAPER 12 Answers to the authors' questions for paper 12. >THIS IS WHAT WE ARE CURIOUS ABOUT AND THEREFORE POSE THESE >QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION: > >6.1 >Can non-experts learn from each other, especially in a >complex field like Organic Chemistry? I think we'd all like to believe that perhaps all nonexperts, and in particular our students, can learn from each other -- regardless of the field. Isn't this what cooperative learning is all about. I try to tell my students what we learn more from our mistakes (that is figuring out why the answer was wrong) than being told the correct answer. I've developed problem sets for my general chemistry classes with very complex, long, and laborious problems which the students must solve as teams. I create the teams based on class performance so as to get a mix of abilities in each group. I give them a week to work the problems and schedule in one class period in which the teams can work on the problem. During that time I circulate from group to group to monitor progress and nudge them to work cooperatively. The overall response is favorable. The positive comments are that it gives them an opportunity to meet other classmates (especially good first semester freshman year) and they get to learn about material they might otherwise miss. The negative comments are largely that they have difficulty finding a time to meet as a team outside of the class time. I have had students who don't really understand how to work as a team; helping them to see teamwork as a means of learning is perhaps the hardest thing. I've also tried this same approach as a lab project-- simulating the environment of a research group. It worked best in that environment. Each student performed one small portion of the experiment. They can only draw conclusions when all of the data and results are combined. This received very positive response. Note that the July issue of J. Chem. Ed. has several articles that address this idea. >6.2 >Why is Organic Chemistry often identified as the hardest >course a student takes? It is not the quantity of material >(biology has millions of terms). It is not the math. Do we >pride ourselves in its inaccessibility? > I can only speak from my own experience as a freshman soon-to- be sophomore fifteen years ago. I had many friends who were sophomores; they all moaned dreadfully about how difficult organic was. I was prepared for the worst; and when I started organic in the fall, I experienced the worst (at least by my standards). At some point during the second semester, I was able to distance myself from the situation. At Chapel Hill 75% to 85% of the students in organic were destined for professional school in the health sciences of some sort. They were all there to pass their MCAT's and get into professional school. I saw that I was feeling oppressed by the competitiveness of my classmates and hadn't been able to learn for the sheer fun of it (not unusual among 20-year-olds). I think that part of what made it seem less difficult second semester was that the professor began to make connections between what we were learning and what we had learned as freshmen and "everyday life". I call myself a bioinorganic chemist. My graduate coursework was in inorganic but I trained in a very multidisciplinary research group. We had protein people, we had and inorganic organic types, we had a few NMR jocks and ALL of us did spectroscopy. Now I'm the resident inorganic chemist at a branch campus of a large university. Most of my teaching load is general chemistry (each year I teach one advanced inorganic course). Most of my students in general will go on to take organic; most of them are already "afraid" of it before they begin their second year. Why? Probably because those same nasty "rumors" are being passed down from the kids further along. When I start the second semester course, I let them know that probably 95% of them will go on to take organic and that I suspect most of them have already heard that it's a REALLY difficult course . . . and I agree. Then I tell them that a lot of what they have heard is nothing more than a nasty rumor. I proceed to explain that many of the principles and much of the descriptive chemistry that they will learn this semester are nothing more than organic chemistry. I hope than by taking organic chemistry out or the neat little box that we have created, I can help dispel the "nasty rumor" before these kids become sophomores. >6.3 >Consider a research lab, with a lot of collaboration going >on. Can we achieve some of that excitement if we encourage >student collaboration during lecture? > I've tried to do this in the group exercises that I described in response to question 6.1 above. I think that ultimately this is possible. I suspect that we have a few barriers to overcome. Perhaps the greatest barrier to change is style. Theresa Zielinski described it as "the resistance to movement away from algorithms". Can we overcome that barrier? Yes . . in time. >6.4 >Can anyone lecture for 3-hours after lunch -- can anyone >really listen for 3-hours? > I rather doubt it. I teach two back-to-back sections of the same course at 12N and 1P. It's been a real challenge to stay alive. When I get back to my office I'm exhausted! Don Rosenthal posed the question: >b. Did you consider two 1.5 hour sessions or three 1 hour sessions? > Don't students get tired in such a long session? >6.5 >Can writing lead to understanding? Does better writing >reflect clearer thinking? > Recent articles in J. Chem. Ed. (May, June and July) as well as the leading references to these articles suggest that this is true. I certainly gain a much better understanding of a subject when I write about it. The key to having our students reach this stage is the types of exercises which we employ. >6.6 >How much material can be cut from a course without >discrediting the course? >Can we agree on a bare minimum of general mechanisms and >principles, with which our students will be able to tackle >more advanced courses? > The discussion thread which developed under the heading "New Tools vs Old Methods" addressed this question. >6.7 >Memorizing tons of mechanisms does not lead to mastery, but >can understanding the basic mechanisms lead to mastery? > I'm not sure; but then how do we define "mastery"? I can't remember who said it, but one of the participant suggested that mastery comes about with time and experience. What can we hope to achieve for beginning organic students (for our chemistry majors?)? Understanding and appreciating the principles underlying the basic mechanisms is probably a good start. If we aim to make them "independent learners" mastery will come more easily. >6.8 >The network itself depends upon the teacher. What are your >experiences and ideas about teaching through electronic >conferences? > This conference is probably the best example I can give for using electronic conferences as a means of teaching. I participated in Richard Smith's "Navigating the Internet: an Interactive Workshop" last fall. In both cases the motivation has been to learn more about the available technology. We probably need a "tastier carrot" for our students. I have found that when I teach my seniors how to use on- line searching and mention the wealth of information available over the INTERNET my enthusiasm is contagious. >6.9 >With the help of appropriate software, can we make experts of >our students, even the beginning organic chemistry students? >Can they explore and verify the correctness of their answers >themselves? > Experts may be asking too much -- though I must admit I sometimes wish I could. I think that Theresa's (Roszieli@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu) goals are realistic and address this question nicely: >>I guess my goal now for my students is to make them independent >>learners. Give them some modern toys to play with, some modern >>tasks that develop >>their basic skills, and challenge them to >>explore learning and the creation of their own understanding of the >>world around us. >6.10 >Finally, based on all of the above, do we serve as teachers >if we only help provide the directional signposts? > I can empathize with the point made in 5.1 >a student writes, " ... The teacher when asked a question >either answers with a question or gives you an answer which >literally confuses you more than before. As a student I am >here to be taught and when there is no instruction by the >teacher, why should we call it a class, when we are all on >our own." I've used the strategy of answering a question with another question. I got into this habit when my would-be architect 13-year- old son was about 21/2 -- long before I started teaching college chemistry. It frustrates him sometimes -- just as it frustrates my students sometimes. I'm beginning my fourth year of teaching full- time and I'm finally at that vantage point where I can observe the student maturation process. I doubt I'll have disagreement that teaching is many things. Providing directional guideposts is a major part. We also have to help them learn to use the signposts. That is perhaps the most challenging part. Simply lecturing (imparting information in a formal detached manner) doesn't accomplish either of these goals effectively. Understanding how our students learn and developing a teaching style that speaks to the modes of learning will accomplish those goals more effectively. Lisa Kintner Department of Chemistry University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown Johnstown, PA KINTNER@VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 10:47:01 EDT Reply-To: smitc@vims.edu From: "Craig L. Smith" Subject: Re: DISCUSSION OF PAPER 11 On Tue, 3 Aug 1993 11:39:10 -0500, Donald Peterson wrote: >I have been a passive participant of this conference since it started. Since I >am deaf, I do have to say that this is the first conference in which I have >been able to participate fully and not feel disadvantaged in any way. >A further advantage is that everything is in print. Well I too am disabled (a C4 quad), with little opportunity to travel to conferences, or to read papers in the massive tomes that are the convention in scientific conference and general publications. It is refreshing to be able to retrieve papers (& figures) in electronic format. Kudos to T. O'Haver for the excellent job of convening and moderating. I should also be thankful to the UMD CWIS system that allows such varied electronic access to this conference and other material by internet gopher, telnet, ftp, and email connection. Although I do little course teaching per se, I have found email an effective tool for rapid asynchronous communication with students and colleagues. It is effective for 'open book' examinations, assignments, and Q&A sessions. I think if more universities offered similarly powerful information services, and also insisted (as Clarkson & Va Tech & ... do) that entering students purchase a PC (no OS or manufacturer implied or endorsed) as part of student activity fees, we would see an enormous growth in electronic communication in teaching, examining, and learning. Even those commuting students could login to such services by modem at modest cost. A minimum hardware setup can be obtained by investment of <$1000, and with free PD packages such as kermit, clarkson/rutgers telnet/ftp, and UMN gopher clients readily availale, what a bargain! Craig L. Smith or Dep't of Environmental Sciences : School of Marine Science Virginia Inst. of Marine Science : College of William and Mary Gloucester Point VA 23062 : (804) 642-7246 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 11:49:26 -0400 From: theresa Julia Zielinski Organization: University at Buffalo Subject: Re: Paper 11 Baubles for Liberal Arts Students The second book by Sheila Tobias is also worth looking at: Revitalizing Undergraduate Science: Why some Things Work and Most Don't Other important works include: America's Academic Future : A report of the Presidential Young Investigator Colloquium on U.S. Engineering, Mathematics, and Science Education for the Year 2010 and Beyond. (1992) obtainable from NSF Report on the National Science Foundation Disciplinary Workshops on Undergraduate Education (1989) obtainable from NSF An Exploration of the Nature and Quality of Undergraduate Education in Science, Mathematics and Engineering - AReport of the National Advisory Group of Sigma Xi, The Scientific Research Society (1989) supported by the NSF and Jhonson Foundation obtainable from Sigma Xi Entry Level Undergraduate courses in Science, Mathematics and Engineering: and Investment in Human Resourses An Initiative of Sigma Xi, the Scientific Research Society, Committee on Science,Mathematics and Engineering Education (1990) supported by NSF and the Johnson Foundation obtainable from Sigma Xi Theresa Julia Zielinski Niagara University Roszieli@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu Chemistry Department Niagara University NY 14109 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 16:03:43 -0500 From: Carolyn Sweeney Judd Subject: Re: Discussion of Paper 12 begins In-Reply-To: <9308041303.AA11956@umd5.umd.edu> Answers to Short Questions on Paper 12 were emailed early in the morning of August 4, prior to Tom O'Haver's official opening of the discussion on Paper 12. Carolyn S. Judd and Robert G. Ford Central College, Houston Community College System 1300 Holman Houston TX 77004 713-630-1103 cjudd@tenet.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 16:40:25 -0500 From: Carolyn Sweeney Judd Subject: Cooperative Learning - Paper 12 In-Reply-To: <9308041450.AA20417@umd5.umd.edu> On August 4, 1993, Dr. Lisa Kintner shared her answers to the questions posed by the authors of Paper 12. Her message was so full of good ideas that the authors of Paper 12 are each submitting a reply to her. I endorse the concept of cooperative learning, which is the goal of using the network. Having the networked-computers so that everyone received all messages made for a different atmosphere than just a lab filled with computers. A real sharing did take place. I can tell you that several of the students never did really buy the idea of sharing or cooperation. Can you share with us some of the ways that you encouraged team work for those who do not understand about working in teams? The experiment that simulated a research project sounds great. Can you furnish a few more details about what type project was involved? Hurrah for you for trying to tackle the fear of Organic Chemistry during the general chemistry course. Carolyn S. Judd Central College, Houston Community College System 1300 Holman Houston TX 77004 713-630-1103 cjudd@tenet.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 17:28:10 -0500 From: Carolyn Sweeney Judd Subject: Re: Paper 12 Answers to Authors' Questin In-Reply-To: <9308041450.AA20417@umd5.umd.edu> >From Robert Ford, co-author, Paper 12 I'm very interested in Lisa Kinter's message to us today about the value of collaborative teamwork for the non-experts in our classrooms. I think I liked best the reference to "non-experts" for with Carolyn's chemistry class I was clearly the non-expert of the group. Although I became involved with the chemistry class in the Macintosh lab as a part of my assignment to assist faculty in all departments use the facility, I became really fascinated with what Carolyn was doing as I realized how she valued the electronic network, conferencing and written class discussion. I'm an English teacher, specializing in composition instruction. Collaborative learning has been a major support for the theory of how we teach writing for the last few years (as those of you with friends in your English departments probably already know). Ever since I began teaching I've relied on "peer responses," "group projects," and "class discussions" to help my students learn to be better writers. All of these activities were based on hoping that by going through these paces the students would learn more about the complications of audience, about how multiple readers read a text differently. That these goals are hot topics in the academic discussion of English scholars made a focus on collaborative activity all the more important:it was one of the ways that freshman English and professional English scholars related to each other. As much as I've valued collaborative work, though, I have to confess that I have grave doubts about it. I know that I may preach for the need for students to discover their own voices by working through information on their own, but I also know that I think I know the "best" ways for them to discover their own true selves. And -- it's just hard for them to discover what I think is "best" on their own. Sometimes--usually--they discover something else, something that they think is better. When I let a collaborative group work on a project, I have to make myself stay out of things as much as possible, to encourage the group members to pull together. Sometimes there are problems, when a group of students are un-equally matched, when a group of non-experts contains too great a range of possible non-experts for the group to function successfully. Then, I have to reenter the picture and give direction. I alsom have to will myself to avoid giving too much direction and thereby turn the group into less a collaborative group and more a group performing the tricks I've set out. Dr. Kintner's comment that "helping them to see teamwork as a means of learning is perhaps the hardest part" really hits home with my experiences teaching writing. Sometimes a group sees my assignment as busy work to be completed as soon as possible. They view possible instances of confusion as annoying interruptions. I view these confusions as moments when thinking can occur, when students can make themselves use their brains to figure out what to do. I often find myself exerting much more energy and attention to a class involved in some collaborative project than to a class in which I'm carefully directing things upfront. In the collaborative class, my directing role is I think more crucial--and it's harder, for I have to direct and encourage the students almost invisibly, so that they continue to have to work themselves. I do think that using an electronic network, whether in a class in real time or over a network (I have most experience with a modem-based distance education program) can help encourage the collaborative process. Eachg student is made a little bit more equal, for each can be more or less anonymous. Those who would hesitate to participate due to shyness, language problems, cultural reasons, or other reasons can sometimes (or more times?) participate more fully. The teacher is more hidden, for his or her voice is just one more message. Whether in a traditional classroom or over a network, though, collaboration seems to work best when the goal of the activity is clearly assigned, when the range of possible results is somewhat limited and the teacher has carefully thought out what should be that range. Doing this planning is difficult; I know how difficult when teaching English. What impressed me with Carolyn's chemistry class is how she asked students to use the software we had to conduct miniature experiments or analyses and then publicize their results. Each questionshe sent over PacerForum allowed for a small moment of collaboration to occur. Granted, I don't think that all of the students fully valued the positive effects of these activities; Carolyn and I are both aware of the pitfalls. However, when I saw students talking to each other about what they were doing over the network, or saw them hunched infront of one computer screen , looking at a simulation and trying to figure out how to analyze it, well, I think I was looking at real learning. Since I'm not a chemist, I can't really say what it is that they were learning, I admit, but as a teacher I know I can recognize thinking when it is occurring. This project was exciting too --mostly because it helped me think about how I use classroom collaboration in traditional classrooms or in my own computer-based courses (which I teach in a same room Carolyn used and over the modem in our distance education program). Dr. Kintner also refers to a problem in using more collaborative methds of teaching when she mentions that "the greatest barrier to change is style." I'm now working to encourage faculty in history, political science, psychology, marketing, and art history to use the Co-op. Faculty members who have never used computers in their classrooms come to the computers with the idea, often, that the computers will deliver information to their students. They view the computers as a lecture-enhancing tool. When I try to suggest that the network will allow for their students to discover aspects of the information they need to learn by working together, some of the faculty members seem alarmed. However, enough seem interested and curious; this fall we will be experimenting with a new group of collaborators. Yippee! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 17:16:12 PST From: "Edward H. Piepmeier" Subject: paper 11, formula display Tom O'Haver writes: >1. One way is to use three lines for each line of >"chemistry":> > -2 > H SO HPO > 2 4 4 This works fine so long as the formula is on a separate line, but I have seen it scrambled when the author's margins and the reader's margins are different. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 21:05:00 EDT From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Paper 12 - Discussion and Questions In Section 6.6 of your paper you ask: > How much material can be cut from a course without discrediting > the course? In your paper you stated: > Obviously, not as much material can be covered with this question and > answer format. * 1. What textbook and workbook did you use? * * 2. Which chapters were covered and which not covered? * What fraction of the total material was covered? * * 3. Considering what you covered, how well do you think these students * would perform: * * a. on one of the standard ACS organic examinations? * * b. The graduate record or MCAT chemistry examination? * * c. Placement examinations given at some graduate schools? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Donald Rosenthal Department of Chemistry Clarkson University ROSEN1@CLVM.BITNET ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 21:07:00 EDT From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Start of Discussion Carolyn Judd mentioned that her answers to questions for Paper 12 were sent out before the official announcement to begin discussion was received. Discussion is supposed to begin at 8 AM Eastern Daylight Saving Time on the day designated for the beginning of discussion of the paper. Frequently, messages are received just a few minutes after they are sent. However, sometimes there are delays somewhere in the network. From the time indicated on the dateline of Tom O'Haver's messages it is clear he is sending out his messages on time. However, his and other messages sometimes experience delays. Authors and participants are urged to begin discussion on or after 8 AMEDT on the designated day and NOT to wait for Tom's message which is merely designed to be a reminder. This message is being posted at 9:20 PM (21:20 PM) on August 4. Don Rosenthal ROSEN1@CLVM.BITNET ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 01:06:31 -0500 From: Carolyn Sweeney Judd Subject: Re: Paper 12 - Discussion and Questions In-Reply-To: <9308050113.AA23945@umd5.umd.edu> On Wed, 4 Aug 1993, Donald Rosenthal wrote: > In Section 6.6 of your paper you ask: > > > How much material can be cut from a course without discrediting > > the course? > > In your paper you stated: > > Obviously, not as much material can be covered with this question and > > answer format. > > * 1. What textbook and workbook did you use? MCMURRY, ORGANIC CHEMISTRY, 3RD EDITION > * > * 2. Which chapters were covered and which not covered? IN TWO SEMESTERS, WE COVER CHAPTERS 1-23, 25-27. OUR GOAL IS TO INCREASE THE COVERAGE TO INCLUDE THE OMITTED 5 CHAPTERS: CARBOHYDRATES, LIPIDS, NUCLEIC ACIDS, PERICYCLIC REACTIONS, AND SYNTHETIC POLYMERS) > * What fraction of the total material was covered? > FROM 1/3 TO 1/2 OF THE TIME WAS SPENT ON VERY BASIC MECHANISMS FROM EACH CHAPTER. THEN THOSE REACTIONS THAT REINFORCED THE BASIC MECHANISMS WERE EMPHASIZED. PROBABLY 1/4 OF EACH CHAPTER RECEIVED LITTLE EMPHASIS. REACTIONS THAT PRODUCED TRICKY OR UNEXPECTED RESULTS WERE NOT EMPHASIZED. FOR INSTANCE, WE DID NOT COVER THE CANNIZZARO REACTION. I KNOW THAT SOME MATERIAL MUST BE OMITTED, EVEN IN A REGULAR LECTURE STYLE COURSE; I AM SOMEWHAT UNEASY ABOUT MY CHOICES OF WHAT TO OMIT. * > * 3. Considering what you covered, how well do you think these students > * would perform: > * > * a. on one of the standard ACS organic examinations? ON EVERY EXAM, I INCLUDED AT LEAST 3 MORE COMPLEX QUESTIONS DIRECTLY BASED ON THE ACS ORGANIC EXAMINATIONS.(USUALLY THESE WERE NOT MULTIPLE CHOICE FORMAT, BUT OPEN ANSWER). THESE WERE OFTEN THE HARDEST QUESTIONS FOR MY STUDENTS.HOWEVER, SOME OF MY STUDENTS DID WELL ON THESE QUESTIONS. BUT THE MAJOR ACHIEVEMENT OF THIS SPRING WAS THAT NEARLY ALL MY STUDENTS TRIED TO WORK ALL THE PROBLEMS, INSTEAD OF SKIPPING THE HARDER QUESTIONS. > * b. The graduate record or MCAT chemistry examination? > * MANY OF MY STUDENTS ARE SUCCESSFUL CONDIDATES FOR MEDICAL SCHOOL, DENTAL SCHOOL, PHYSICIANS ASSISTANT PROGRAMS, AND NURSING SCHOOL.FOR MANY OF THEM, THIS MEANT SUCCESSFUL RESULTS ON THE MCAT EXAM. > * c. Placement examinations given at some graduate schools? > AT LEAST ONE OF MY STUDENTS HAS BEEN ACCEPTED IN A PH D. PROGRAM IN BIOCHEMISTRY. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- THESE ARE GREAT QUESTIONS THAT REFLECT WHAT I OFTEN STRUGGLE WITH. THE STUDENTS ENTERING THE SECOND SEMESTER OF ORGANIC CHEMISTRY ARE VERY GOOD STUDENTS, WHO ARE EXTREMELY MOTIVATED. MY GOAL IS TO HELP THEM ACQUIRE A FOUNDATION, AND TO CUT DOWN THEIR FRUSTRATION LEVEL. I AM CONVINCED THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE STUDENTS AT THIS LEVEL SHOULD DO WELL IN THIS COURSE. I BELIEVE THAT THE INVOLVEMENT OF STUDENTS ON THE NETWORKED COMPUTERS RAISED THE STUDENTS TO A HIGHER DEGREE OF CHEMICAL MATURITY. THE QUESTIONS ON MY EXAMS WERE MORE SOPHISTICATED THAT IN PRIOR YEARS. Carolyn S. Judd Central College, Houston Community College System 1300 Holman Houston TX 77004 713-630-1103 cjudd@tenet.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 08:17:03 -0400 From: Jack Martin Miller Subject: Re: Start of Discussion >Carolyn Judd mentioned that her answers to questions for Paper 12 >were sent out before the official announcement to begin discussion was >received. > >Discussion is supposed to begin at 8 AM Eastern Daylight Saving Time on >the day designated for the beginning of discussion of the paper. >Frequently, messages are received just a few minutes after they are sent. >However, sometimes there are delays somewhere in the network. From the >time indicated on the dateline of Tom O'Haver's messages it is clear >he is sending out his messages on time. However, his and other messages >sometimes experience delays. > >Authors and participants are urged to begin discussion on or after 8 AMEDT >on the designated day and NOT to wait for Tom's message which is merely >designed to be a reminder. > >This message is being posted at 9:20 PM (21:20 PM) on August 4. > I guess the net is faster than the speed of light -- my receipt time is 21:07!! Presumably my server's closck is out. >Don Rosenthal >ROSEN1@CLVM.BITNET Jack Martin Miller Professor of Chemistry ex-Chair, Computer Science Brock University, St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada, L2S 3A1. Phone (416) 688 5550, ext 3402 FAX (416) 682 9020 e-mail jmiller@sandcastle.cosc.brocku.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 10:55:15 -0400 From: JOHN WOOLCOCK Organization: Indiana University of Pennsylvania Subject: Re: Cooperative Learning - Paper 12 Carolyn Sweeny Judd writes: >I endorse the concept of cooperative learning, which is the goal of using >the network. Having the networked-computers so that everyone received >all messages made for a different atmosphere than just a lab filled with >computers. A real sharing did take place. I can tell you that several of >the students never did really buy the idea of sharing or cooperation. Can >you share with us some of the ways that you encouraged team work for >those who do not understand about working in teams? One way to use and promote teamwork or cooperative learning is in a lab course. Many of the lab experiments in our introductory chemistry course (and I suspect at other institutions as well) are done with the students broken into groups of two. This is sometimes necessary due to the logistics of the procedure (clock reactions, thermochemistry, etc.) and other times it is needed because of the length of the exercise. I also occasionally have the students pool their data and do a post-lab discussion of the results as recommended by Robert Ricci and Mauri Ditzler in their excellent article in J. Chem. Educ. 1991, p. 228. I have also recently been asking my students to finish their report sheets and hand them in before the lab period is over. This also forces cooperative learning by making the students rely on me and each other to help them answer them calculations and questions posed in the lab manual. This approach is not without its obvious drawbacks. Is it easy to see that copying of the better student reports in the group is easy in this setting. It is also been my observation that the poorer students paired with better partners will do not do as well if their partner misses lab and they must join another group, if they do it on their own or they are paired with someone else. However, I have also noticed that in many cases the better student will also explain in detail to their partner how to do a calculation or answer a question. Thus both will benefit. As the old saying goes: if you want to learn something well, teach it to someone else. While I have been using these techniques in my lab courses I have not been completely convinced that I am carrying them off in the best way possible. But, the idea of using cooperative learning more effectively, particularly in lab, has intrigue me enough to do some digging into this subject. Particularly since I am going to participate in a "reflective teaching" project here at IUP that will in part emphasize this aspect of teaching. Anyway, here are few resources that I have gathered on this subject that might be of value to others interested in this approach: 1. "Cooperative Learning in the Undergraduate Laboratory" by M. E. Smith, C. C. Hinkley, G. L. Volk. in J. Chem. Educ., 1991, p. 413. 2. "Cooperative Learning:JIncreasing College Faculty Instructional Productivity" by D. W. Johnson, R. T. Johnson, K. A. Smith. Available for $17 from ASHE-ERIC Higher Education Reports, George Washington University, One Dupont Circle, Suite 630, Washington, D.C.