========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1993 09:19:00 EDT From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Paper 5 -Discussion PAPER 5 IT'S HOW YOU PLAY THE GAME by Joyce C. Brockwell This is an interesting proposal. If well planned and implemented, such software could be very useful. In Appendix A the dialog ends with the student having selected two compounds and being told (s)he has guessed the identity of the compound. Personally, I would like to see another question asked: What could you do to determine which of the two (or more) compounds you actually have? This question could be asked on the worksheet. SQUALOR is a Simulated QUAL ORganic analysis program which is quite well done. Has the AUTHOR used this with her students? What do some of the other PARTICIPANTS think of SQUALOR? Does it play a useful role in teaching students something about Qualitative Organic Analysis? Donald Rosenthal Box 5810 Department of Chemistry Clarkson University Potsdam NY 13699-5810 ROSEN1@CLVM.BITNET ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1993 09:45:57 -0400 From: Mary Swift Subject: Paper 5 I would like to suggest that the program to grade to the organic qual unknowns could be made into an instructional tool that aids the student in developing his thinking/problem solving skills Once the data base is created the "front end" would be structured as a laboratory. That is the student would be presented with an unknown and given "access" to a set of tools. The student would select the analyses to be carried out and come to his conclusion about the identity of the unknown. For an example of this type of instructional package see the BioQUEST library which was received an EDUCOM award as best curriculum last year. In some ways these applications come very close to the ways in which we try to approach our own problem solving and the students are "given" access to equipment that would normally be to expensive to let them "play" with. Mary L.Swift ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1993 09:05:57 MDT Reply-To: bagaddis@uccs.edu From: bagaddis@HAPPY.UCCS.EDU Subject: Re: Paper 5 -Discussion We have used SQUALOR as a supplement to qualitative organic analysis in both the majors and non majors organic chemistry lab. Students liked this program very much. They felt it prepared them both for the actual laboratory exercise and for the lab exams. Many students came in on their own time to work additional problems over what had been assigned. I think it is good as a supplement, but I would hate to see it replace hands-on work in the lab. Barbara Gaddis' U.C.C.S. Science Learning Center P.O. Box 7150 Colorado Springs, CO 80933-7150 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1993 10:53:56 -0500 From: Joyce Brockwell Subject: Re: Paper 5 In-Reply-To: <01H00T7INZG00011VI@nuacc.acns.nwu.edu> from "Mary Swift" at Jul 1, 93 09:45:57 am Mary Swift has suggested that the qual grader become an instructor as well, through the simple expedient of allowing the students to study the system and the analysis process by taking hypothetical unknowns through the program. This, indeed, would be a powerful use of such software, allowing the sudents to achieve a level of "comfort" with, e.g. single unknown, to present them with more challenges in the real lab (mixtures!) Yes, it would have that very practical use implicit in its construction. J.C.Brockwell ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1993 11:02:10 -0500 From: Joyce Brockwell Subject: Re: Paper 5 -Discussion In-Reply-To: <01H00SE51ASG000F9I@nuacc.acns.nwu.edu> from "Donald Rosenthal" at Jul 1, 93 09:19:00 am Don Rosenthal has inquired about the possibibility of a "back end" function on the qual program--a last inquiry to the user about distinguishing the specific unknown from the choice of two given by the final guesses. Such an extension would be possible, but , I suspect, better done in "wetware"--student-teacher interactions. Either way, its a natural. Don, as well as Barbara Gaddis, have inquired about SQUALOR, the award-winning software simulating qualitative analysis in organic chemistry. SQUALOR, and other useful instructional programs, may potentially shorten the learning curve in mastering strategy in qual. With practic3 on the simulator, students may learn to ask themselves the next question during the analysis. Use of the comuputer cannot replace the laboraty experience, but it can make it "easier" for the students, thus reducing stress and allowing the experiments to be a bit more challenging. At present, Northwestern lacks the hardware to dedicate to chemistry service courses on computers. In fact, we are in a better position to allow the laboratory experience (including instrumentation!) However, the computers will eventually find their way into our curriculum, allowing simulations to expand the students' experience and enhance their laboratory learning. Joyce Brockwell ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1993 18:06:36 -0400 From: theresa Julia Zielinski Organization: University at Buffalo Subject: paper5 discussion - SQUALOR I heard the author of SQUALOR speak at the Fall ACS meeting in NYC in 1991. I also have seen the program in action. I recall that one of the purposes of the program was to allow students intensive practice with a variety of samples (many more than could be done practically in lab by one student in one semester). There was no intention that the program be used to substitute for real wet lab work. As I recall the program allows input of new compounds including spectra. With a secure set of unknowns in a separate file it can even be used for assessment with or without the professor at the elbow of the student. The main problem that I anticipate with SQUALOR or the program proposed here is that the success depends on the attitude of the instructor. If simulations are a valued type of educational tool then the instructor will foster use of the program. If the instructor views simulations as just so much guessing then the students will not get much out of the program and it will probably not be used often or effectively. Even a good and interesting program like SQUALOR can be made a boring chore for the student if the correct parameters are set in class or lab by the instructor. Personally I prefer the SQUALOR approach. Its goal is to foster student learning by providing painless rapid practice sessions. Probably the best of all worlds would be to have both programs, SQUALOR and the one proposed here, especially at larger departments. It is important to get the instructor out from behind the desk and out from under a pile of papers and into the lab talking to and mentoring students. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1993 17:16:20 -0500 From: Carolyn Sweeney Judd Subject: Re: Paper 5 In-Reply-To: <9307011408.AA15070@umd5.umd.edu> On Thu, 1 Jul 1993, Mary Swift wrote: > For an example of this type > of instructional package see the BioQUEST library which was > received an EDUCOM award as best curriculum last year. I would like to hear more about this instructional package. Carolyn S. Judd Central College, Houston Community College System 1300 Holman Houston TX 77004 713-630-1103 cjudd@tenet.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1993 20:05:00 EDT From: to2 Subject: Re: Paper 5 In-Reply-To: <9307012222.AA20976@umd5.umd.edu> > I would like to hear more about this instructional package. BioQUEST is a set of simulations and related material for biology instruction (genetics, biometrics, molecular biology, etc.). It's a significant, highly-rated cooperative effort of several institutions. It is being published in a very enlightened way by the U. of Maryland Academic Software Development Group. Write to asdg@umdd.umd.edu. You can also download a very nice introduction to the project from cs.beloit.edu /public/bioquest. Tom O'Haver ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 10:13:57 +1000 From: Adrian Blackman Subject: Paper 5 and TORGANAL Paper 5 - It's how you play the game, by Joyce Brockwell There have been several references to SQUALOR. I would like to draw attention to another program which simulates organic qualatative analysis. It is called TORGANAL - Tasmanian organic analysis. The program aims to simulate the process a chemist would use to identify an unknown organic compound. It includes both physical (including spectroscopic) and chemical tests. It has been designed as a pre-laboratory rehearsal so that students can approach the real task of identifying an organic unknown with more confidence and efficiency. TORGANAL has been very favorably reviewed in 'Software Reviews' volume 7, pages 20-21 (published by the CTI Centre for Chemistry, University of Liverpool, UK) and in 'Chemistry in Australia', May, 1993, page 226. There are licenced users in the USA, UK and Australia. An IBM compatible computer is required with at least EGA graphics and 640K RAM. The program is available as shareware from SIMTEL-20 in the directory EDUCATION as the file TORG311.ZIP or from Budgetware, PO Box 496, Newtown, New South Wales, Australia, 2042, as catalogue number PC8115. Dr Adrian Blackman E-Mail Adrian.Blackman@chem.utas.edu.au Chemistry Department University of Tasmania PO Box 252C,Hobart Tasmania Australia 7001 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 06:08:00 EDT From: to2 Subject: Re: Paper 5 and TORGANAL In-Reply-To: <9307020016.AA26360@umd5.umd.edu> Here are some other FTP sources for TORGANAL: torg310.zip: Organic chemistry ID of unknowns simulator Host ftp.uu.net Location: /systems/ibmpc/msdos/simtel20/education FILE -rw-r--r-- 172682 Apr 21 1992 torg310.zip Host rigel.acs.oakland.edu Location: /pub/msdos/education FILE -rw-r--r-- 172682 Apr 21 1992 torg310.zip Host wuarchive.wustl.edu Location: /mirrors/msdos/education FILE -rw-r--r-- 172682 Apr 21 1992 torg310.zip Tom O'Haver ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 09:02:07 EDT From: Nava Ben Zvi <201226@UMDD.BITNET> Subject: Re: Carolyn Judd on USE OF WORLD OF CHEMISTRY VIDEOS IN COURSES In-Reply-To: Message received on Wed, 30 Jun 93 19:15:50 EDT regarding John Moore's comment about CD ROMs. Yes, we have to get permission to use the WOC on CD ROM and I will be delighted tohelp and get us started. Nava ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 09:36:10 EDT From: Jim Holler Subject: Re: Paper 5 and TORGANAL In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 2 Jul 1993 06:08:00 EDT from I don't find torganal as torg310.zip at any of the three sites you suggest. Any ideas? Jim Holler Phone: 606-257-5884 Department of Chemistry FAX: 606-258-1069 University of Kentucky Email: HOLLER@UKCC.UKY.EDU Lexington, KY 40506 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 09:48:00 EDT From: to2 Subject: Re: Paper 5 and TORGANAL In-Reply-To: <9307021338.AA21080@umd5.umd.edu> I just did another Archie search and came up with: Host gatekeeper.dec.com Location: /.2/micro/msdos/simtel20/education FILE -r--r--r-- 172682 Apr 21 1992 torg310.zip Host gdr.bath.ac.uk Location: /simtel-cdrom/msdos/educatin FILE -r-xr-xr-x 172682 Apr 21 1992 torg310.zip Host nctuccca.edu.tw Location: /PC-MsDos/Garbo-pc/science FILE -r--r--r-- 172949 Apr 10 1992 torg310.zip Host plaza.aarnet.edu.au Location: /micros/pc/garbo/pc/science FILE -r--r--r-- 172949 Apr 10 1992 torg310.zip Host wuarchive.wustl.edu Location: /mirrors/msdos/education FILE -rw-r--r-- 172682 Apr 21 1992 torg310.zip Location: /mirrors4/garbo.uwasa.fi/science FILE -rw-rw-r-- 172949 Apr 10 1992 torg310.zip Things are always changing on the Internet, and I suppose that even Archie might be out of date, since it's my understanding that individual sites are polled by Archie only about once a month. Tom O'Haver ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 09:47:56 -0400 From: HANKS@FRMNVAX1.BITNET Subject: Re: paper5 discussion - SQUALOR Several people have discussed the use of programs which simulate the traditional "Organic Unknown" lab, ofter with the caveat that the programs should not replace the wet chem lab. Last year, we began using SQUALOR to do just that. Our reasoning is that while the logic process taught in the unknown lab is valuble, many of the techniques are not. Organic chemists in the "real world" rely of modern spectroscopic methods to identify compounds while rarely resorting to a Tollen's test and etc. Please note that while we no longer do a wet lab organic unknown, we have not reduced the amount of time students spend in the wet chem lab. Rather, the wet chem lab now focuses more on synthetic techniques and spectroscopic identification of products. Timothy Hanks Department of Chemistry Furman University Greenville, SC Hanks@frmnvax1.bitnet ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 09:05:37 MDT From: Reed Howald Subject: Re: paper 5 > Spectroscopic data including ir and 1Hnmr absorptions, possibly uv and 13Cnmr will be included as well >Hanks: >Organic chemists in the "real world" rely on modern spectroscopic methods to identify compounds while rarely resorting to a Tollen's test, etc. Ms. Brockwell's paper is a well thought out approach to the development of a computer program for grading unknowns in organic qual. I would like to develop one aspect of writing such programs which is touched on in the paper but which needs further consideration: How can programs be developed so that they can be adapted to the needs of other teachers? One obvious answer which Ms. Brockwell presents is separating the data base from the program. Thus the data base will be useable by those including spectroscopic techniques in the organic qual. I agree with the use of C/C++ in writing code for programs like this. However we must recognize that most teachers do not know this language. Thus it seems to me that it is nexessary to move all the content out of the program and into editable files. Without some separation like this I do not see how a program like Brockwell's could be used with the prganic qual program here at Montana State University. I am working hard on considering how computer assisted instruction can be written with this sort of separation. I would appreciate ideas on this from any and all conference participants. My E-mail address is "uchrh@earth.oscs.montana.edu". sincerely, Reed Howald ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 18:48:20 -0400 From: "Mr. Science" Subject: Re: paper 5 "Number One, engage text-extractor beam... NOW!!" "Aye, Captain!!" BBBZZZFFFTTT!!! "Captain, previous message locked into extractor beam. Begin reply?" "Mr. Riker... Make it so!" > >One obvious answer which Ms. Brockwell presents is separating the data base >from the program. Thus the data base will be useable by those including >spectroscopic techniques in the organic qual. > >I agree with the use of C/C++ in writing code for programs like this. However >we must recognize that most teachers do not know this language. Thus it seems >to me that it is nexessary to move all the content out of the program and into >editable files. Without some separation like this I do not see how a program >like Brockwell's could be used with the prganic qual program here at Montana >State University. > >I am working hard on considering how computer assisted instruction can be >written with this sort of separation. I would appreciate ideas on this from >any and all conference participants. My E-mail address is >"uchrh@earth.oscs.montana.edu". > Hey guys, since Windows and other Windowing environments (XWindows, OS/2, Mac UNIX) allow for graphics and "movies" to be displayed, why not use Borland's Object Windows to allow different instructors to use the database (appropriately configured to be used within Object Windows, of course!) to design indivudal programs? That would solve the problem entirely, as Object Windows really doesn't expect anyone to have a great deal of programming background in any real sense. Just my two cents worth! regards, Tony ;> Date this awe-inspiring message was sent: 2-JUL-1993 18:45:27 *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | Anthony V. Rosati | | | Department of Chemistry, | "A nation that cannot think, | | Georgetown University | cannot survive." | | Washington, D.C. 20057-2222 | | | ROSATI@GUSUN.GEORGETOWN.EDU | - Norman Mailer, 1992 | | A_ROSATI@GUVAX.GEORGETOWN.EDU | National Press Club | # ======== # ======== # ======== # ======== # ======== # ======== # | Information Exchange Coordinator and Member, Board of Directors | | National Association of Graduate-Professional Students (NAGPS) | | 1993 - 1994 | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1993 09:39:00 EDT From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Paper 1 - General Discussion Period Re: Paper 1 - General Discussion From: Donald Rosenthal --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1993 23:46:12 -0400 ======== > From: theresa Julia Zielinski > Organization: University at Buffalo > Subject: paper1 > I have some questions that I could not ask because I was out of town. > Do your students remain in lab for the full three hours? * The experiments were designed so they would take the full three * hours. Some student pairs work more efficiently than others * and some less efficiently. Some students finish early. Some * students need additional time in which to finish - they may stay * beyond the three hours or else arrange to come in to finish an * experiment. ----------------------------- > Do the students have 6 hours of lab per week? I was not sure > from the text. * Yes * There are six scheduled hours of laboratory each week for each * student in this course. ----------------------------- > Why do You use nylon as the polymer? Wouldn't the standard > polystyrene in toluene or methanol/toluene mixtures or > BSA in aqueous urea mixtures be > as good for the purpose. This might free up some lab time > for a laser experiment or a molecular modeling exercise. * Generally, this is the only required polymer synthesis the * students perform at Clarkson. The synthesis of Nylon-66 involves * the interfacial reaction of a solution of adipyl chloride with a * solution of 1,6-hexanediamine and gradually withdrawing the polymer * rope. Students seem to enjoy the experiment. * Molecular modelling is performed in organic chemistry using PC Model, * HyperChem or SPARTAN. --------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1993 19:29:00 EDT From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: POLL OF PARTICIPANTS ABOUT WHAT EVERY STUDENT SHOULD KNOW PAPER 1 WHAT EVERY CHEMIST NEEDS TO KNOW ABOUT COMPUTERS AND COMPUTING There has been considerable discussion during the first session of this Computer Conference about this topic. In some schools computer courses are required. In other schools there is no requirement. Some chemistry departments include much of what students learn about computers and computing in their chemistry courses. In other schools much is taught by other Departments. Some students have learned a great deal about computers and computing before they enter college. I would be interested in learning what PARTICIPANTS think EVERY undergraduate and EVERY graduate student needs to know. I realize that your answers may be quite subjective. Also, depending upon what a student does he may use or need to know much more or much less about computers and computing than what we teach. Please fill out and return the following form to ME at ROSEN2@CLVM.BITNET (NOT TO CHEMCONF) by JULY 16. I will summarize the results and send the summary out during the General Discussion period between August 16 and August 20. ====================================================================== WHAT SHOULD EVERY CHEMISTRY STUDENT KNOW ABOUT COMPUTERS AND COMPUTING? Your Name (Optional) _________________________________________________ Address (Optional) ___________________________________________________ e-mail address (Optional) ____________________________________________ In answering the following questions you are being asked what is the MINIMUM an undergraduate and a graduate student needs to know about computers and computing. Use the number 1 to indicate that all chemistry students should be REQUIRED to learn about this. 2 = RECOMMENDED. 3 = PERHAPS. 4 = NO How much should the student learn? A = A LOT. B = SOME. C = A LITTLE. For example, as an answer to question 1, 2-C for undergraduates would mean you RECOMMEND that students learn a LITTLE. 1-B for graduate students would mean you would REQUIRE that graduate students know SOME (but not a LOT). For each question, following the line where the above information is requested you are asked to identify specific software or topics you would recommend. For example, in answer to 1, you might indicate that an undergraduates should know PASCAL, but a graduate student needs to know PASCAL, BASIC and FORTRAN. In the last column I am asking what PERCENT of your time WHICH YOU DEVOTE TO COMPUTING IS DEVOTED TO THIS PARTICULAR ACTIVITY. For example, in answer to 1, if you indicate 10%, this means that 10% of the time you devote to computing involves programming in a high level general purpose programming language. Undergraduate Graduate You Student Student % 1. High Level General Purpose Programming Language _______ _______ ___ Which language(s)? ______________________________________________ 2. Spreadsheets _______ _______ ___ Which spreadsheet(s) ___________________________________________ 3. Databases _______ _______ ___ Which? __________________________________________________________ 4. Numerical methods software _______ _______ ___ Which? __________________________________________________________ 5. Statistical methods _______ _______ ___ Which? __________________________________________________________ 6. Molecular Modelling _______ _______ ___ Which? __________________________________________________________ 7. Plotting _______ _______ ___ Which? __________________________________________________________ 8. Graphics _______ _______ ___ Which? __________________________________________________________ 9. Operating system(s) _______ _______ ___ Which? __________________________________________________________ 10. Utilities Programs _______ _______ ___ Which? __________________________________________________________ 11. Electronic mail _______ _______ ___ Which? __________________________________________________________ 12. Networks and Networking _______ _______ ___ _________________________________________________________________ 13. On-line searching _______ _______ ___ Which? __________________________________________________________ 14. Other languages or software _______ _______ ___ Which? __________________________________________________________ 15. Computer interfaced instruments _______ _______ ___ Which? __________________________________________________________ 16. Computer Hardware _______ _______ ___ and Architecture Which? __________________________________________________________ 17. Interfacing _______ _______ ___ _________________________________________________________________ 18. Other computer skills _______ _______ ___ or software Which? __________________________________________________________ GENERAL QUESTIONS QUESTION 19 On the average how many hours do you spend on all the above listed computer activities each week? ______ hours QUESTION 20 Many universities require chemistry graduate students to exhibit proficiency in foreign languages by passing an examination or examinations. Some universities have accepted demonstrated proficiency in computing or a computing language as fulfilling the requirement for one foreign language. Is this desirable? ________ Provide information on the policy of your university or other universities with respect to this ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ Please return this form by JULY 16 to: Donald Rosenthal (ROSEN2@CLVM.BITNET) and NOT to CHEMCONF. A summary of responses will be distributed during the General Discussion between August 16 and August 20. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1993 10:13:00 EDT From: ROSEN1 Subject: Paper 5 - Joyce Brockwell's Answers to Short Questions To: CHEMCONF Participants For some reason I did not find Joyce Brockwell's Answers to Short Questions. She sent me a copy and I am forwarding it to CHEMCONF, since some of you may not have seen the memorandum. Don Rosenthal ====================================================================== SHORT ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS AROUND PAPER 5: "IT'S HOW YOU PLAY THE GAME" I am taking the opportunity to collate the questions which I received and generalize a few of the replies. This is one of the distinct advantages of an electronic conference, that and being able to sit down, wear blue jeans and listen to the radio while I "confer". Well, here goes... *1* Alan Stolzenberg asked about using mixtures for unknowns in a qual scheme employing a computer "grading" system. I would anticipate that in organic chemistry, in the very least, mixtures would present few problems. A significant part of a student's learning in the organic laboratory is the process of separating and purifying materials, so that the separation and purification processes become part of the qualitative analysis. As such, questions apropos to this would be incorporated into the grading scheme: "was a separation process attempted?" "what methods were used?: chromatography, distillation, fractional crystallization, extraction, etc." "How many components (do you think) were obtained?"... Once the user had indicated that separation was accomplished in a usable fashion, the questions about the individual components would follow in due course. In an inorganic scheme, or even some organic schemes, particularly employing spectroscopy and only analytical chromatography, questions would be posed as being applicable to the mixture or the individual components: "What was the pH of water exposed to the mixture?" "Were the tlc's of the whole mixture and the mixture after treatment with bicarbonate solution comparable?"... *2* Professor Stolzenberg and Mary Swift further ask about the obvious task demand created by answering the computer's questions, the phenomenon I termed the "worksheet effect". The particular list of questions (an electronic worksheet) has the effect of channeling a student's thinking and performance in the laboratory to the point of their performing inappropriate tests simply because the program asks about them. I have attempted by several means to avoid making the strategy for identifying any particular unknown a "set piece". One means I tried to indicate in the program design is that succeeding questions would be triggered by replies to previous questions, i.e. beyond the most basic processes appropriate for all analyses (bp, mp, solubility, pH), the next question asked would depend on the answer to the previous one. Inherent in this scheme would be an algorithm testing for the plausibility of the set of responses, so that a "manufactured" set of replies would not elicit the full set of questions. A clever student would likely still be able to dump out the set of questions, but not without doing some chemistry homework, and that would teach him/her the chemistry which is the whole point anyway! In the design of my qual labs, I divided the unknowns into groups that do not completely overlap in terms of strategy, so that learning on one group is applicable to the next, but not necessarily sufficient for success. In fact, in preparation for this conference I used a qual "guess sheet" in the spring quarter laboratories that was a reformatted list of the questions from the program. At least in this case, the questions were not a significant effect in altering the students behavior or success from previous qual labs. The largest effect on a student's performance is the interaction with the teaching assistant in the lab which follows from the students' awareness that the TA is the person giving them their lab grade. As formulated, this would NOT be altered by use of the machine grader! The human-computer interaction would not be the largest nor the most crucial to the student in learning from qualitative analysis--that would remain the long, active dialog between the students and the TA's and their fellow students. Which brings me to Mary Swift's second question, Professor Stolzenberg's third, and the first related to the program structure: *3* What can be done to prevent the system being "hacked"? What will prevent a clever, computer-oriented student from altering the system so that the computer yields disinformation, both chemical and grading? Happily, the occurrence of hacking is a sure means of identifying a student who can help make the program better than it is. As long as there are computers, there will be hackers, but those people are the ones who can be put to work on the computer and the program to make both more useful, interesting and reliable. In answer to the question, the system (which is what this is) must necessarily be treated as though it were constantly compromised. At the start of each qual scheme, the files identifying the students, their id numbers and the unknowns must be recorded in fixed media--memory which is physically isolated from the system (back-ups!). In addition, the program itself must backed up and restored when tampering is suspected. As the qual labs proceed, frequent automatic redundant back-ups must be made to minimize the loss of information from alteration of the system. Most importantly, the electronic record must not be the only record of the student's work. The laboratory notebooks are the primary source of information, and a "guess" not documented in the notebook should not be validated. While the possibility of altering students' scores in a computer system is always present, the numbers are less of a concern in my laboratories because the largest proportion of the grade is assigned on a subjective basis by the TA ("technique"--one undergraduate TA described this as the ultimate secret grading method). This has the salutatory effect of making the TA's pay attention to the students (grades are NOT undocumented), and lifting the emphasis of getting "the answer", shifting it to "class participation" (brown-nosing is explicitly discouraged). The whole course is designed to de-emphasize the grades and re-emphasize the work itself. Even in the very large classes, I have a significant personal presence which over the long-term has allowed me to see transient problems in students' ability to perform, TA's ability to teach or lead or grade, physical problems with the laboratories, etc. The computer program would be integrated into this environment, and, unless the hacking were exquisitely subtle, "what hurts us only makes us stronger". *4* (isn't it time for new topic?) Platform: I have written programs for the Macintosh, and my own computer is a Mac. I live in a department which prefers command-line operating systems, so I know what goes into both. The design of the tutor as it appears in my paper is sadly very menu-ish, very like the oldest and ugliest command-line programs. It would become interesting in the hands of some young programmer who who was raised on MTV and nurtured by Hollywood. (My theories of programming assign it as a sublimated urge to wreak havoc among certain segments of our young population.) As a set of window, tools, objects, devices and images, it would zip along in a very entertaining mode. My answer: the design is largely independent of platform, particularly since I suspect it must be written in a high-level code, C++ being my preference. At this point, my questions change from inquiries about the nuts and bolts of the program and its hardware, to the "wetware" questions--pedagogy and administration. *5* On to meta-levels: Douglas Coe has inquired of us all about the extent to which organic qual is required of chemistry majors in our various schools. At Northwestern, qual is the fourth segment of the lab, the second half of the second quarter of lab--in a course which is an elective for all but the chemistry majors, for whom it is a requirement. The laboratory curriculum is set by my choices, and largely independent of the lecture course of which it is a part. I keep qual in the curriculum for the reasons I have stated in the paper: it is a solid, comprehensive review of the skills which may only be learned in an empirical setting, and it hones the problem solving skills of the students (it separates the quick and the dead). The strategy of playing "Betty Crocker" and using file copies of old laboratories even in discovery labs, is not effective in a qual lab. I do infinitely prefer writing a recommendation letter for a student who has elected to take that second quarter of organic lab, be it for summer jobs, graduate or professional school, or what have you. We had a faculty member who described the experience as "character building", and I have to agree. I have used multi-step experiments; I use discovery labs as a matter of course, and I encourage constructive collaboration while downgrading the "two body-one brain" syndrome frequently encountered in labs. I have tried using assigned "partnerships" in qual itself, but not successfully. The problems are set a level which is accessible to all of the students and the means to finding solutions so rich and so abundant that success is not difficult to find. In this context, I find qualitative analysis to be a discriminating filter in student performance not found elsewhere, and so I keep it in the curriculum. *6* Professor Coe has asked a second general question: how many of us have expended the time and effort to write a computer program to ease the burden of some repetitive task, specifically grading a large class? I have engaged in this (frustrating) activity at two levels: I am an incessant tinkerer and have tinkered with grading methodology among other things. I use a spreadsheet now, instead of the BASIC program which I wrote years ago, to "level" the grades in the lab sections having different TA's. I may have from 6 to 24 different TA's in one course, necessitating that there be some consistency in the grading across sections. I do not have an objective scoring system--I consider it counterproductive for pedagogy, so I need to minimize the effects of my very subjective grading scheme. This is done in the usual fashion by finding the "grand mean" (and standard deviation and recalculating the section means and standard deviations to match. My second and far more significant foray into programming was the creation of Beaker. This program was created in demand for some means to have organic chemistry, commonly (erroneously!) perceived to be a bunch of memorization, be more easily learned by students with a rigorous mathematical orientation. The proposal was to have the students themselves write an electronic page turner. My response was to have them write an electronic tutor. The result of 3 years of work, some 30,000 lines of C by two excellent programmers is an expert system which embodies no more than 40% of the original design--at a cost of ~$70,000. It would be nice to have another go at it, but it would have to be a full-time job. So, yes, I have put in my time on some keyboards. *7* And last, but not least, my student clientele. Mary Swift asks about the "default" chemistry student at NU: the pre-meds, to wit "For the pre-meds (75% of the class), what is the major objective - development to critical thinking skills or development of manual dexterity? If it is critical thinking, how many wet labs are absolutely necessary to permit the students to get an acceptable level of manual dexterity?" In fact, the settings of the experiments are simple enough that manual dexterity is not a deciding factor in assessing performance. Students who have more than some minimal level of manual dexterity will succeed easily in the labs, and improve rapidly in those techniques which are repeated in several experiments (distillations, tlc, melting points, etc.). Students lacking manual dexterity tend to turn in a poor performance in other areas as well: observations, record keeping and interpretation. This is particularly evident in those experiments where the students are paired up and may thus compensate for a weak performer on technique by having the more dextrous partner perform the work. Too often, the weak partner is still not able to draw conclusions from the experimental observations. My chief objective in the organic laboratories is to give the students a real appreciation for the empirical nature of science.: to have them learn that an experiment is the physical equivalent of a question; that the observations made during the process are essential; that interpretation of the outcome of an experiment is not "did it work" but "what did you see?" and that learning is engaged most strongly where the learner engages the experimental process. Students who distance themselves from the labs because "they don't count" may fail even though their academic record is strong, while weaker students who do "engage" may succeed in the labs. The engagement develops critical thinking as one of a constellation of critically useful skills, among them thinking in "real time", and problem solving on a very practical plane. How many labs are required? Lab improves with practice, so more is better in my opinion. I would hesitate to trust the skill of a student who worked through fewer than a dozen elementary laboratory experiments: in two quarters, my students are required to carry out 18 experiments. *8* Mary Swift further inquires: "How many of the pre-meds obtain admission to medical school?" and "While one must acknowledge the goals of the student, would it not be better to emphasize that there are many careers, including medicine, that require the use of problem solving skills?" The historical placement rate of pre-meds from Northwestern exceeds 90% (more than 250 per year); among chemistry majors, the rate is not significantly different from 100%. And yes, throughout their career in the service courses in the chemistry department at NU, the students, be they science majors (chemistry, biology, geology, integrated science program, speech pathology, etc.), engineers or pre-professionals are immersed in an atmosphere where problem-solving at all levels, explicit and implicit, is key to success in their course work and subsequently in their careers. From: jbrockwe@vmspop.ucs.indiana.edu Subject: Paper 5 answers to short Q's ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 09:14:06 +1000 From: Adrian Blackman Subject: Re: Paper 5 and TORGANAL >I don't find torganal as torg310.zip at any of the three sites you suggest. >Any ideas? > >Jim Holler Phone: 606-257-5884 >Department of Chemistry FAX: 606-258-1069 >University of Kentucky Email: HOLLER@UKCC.UKY.EDU >Lexington, KY 40506 The most recent version of the Torganal program is TORG311.ZIP, dated 29 Mar, 1993. It is available from simtel20 and oakland and various other sites which mirror these e.g. rigel.acs.oakland.edu location /pub/msdos/chemistry ftp.uu.net location /systems/ibmpc/msdos/simtel20/chemistry src.doc.ic.ac.uk location /computing/systems/wsmr-simtel20.army.mil/chemistry archie.au location /micros/pc/oak/chemistry Adrian Blackman Email: Adrian.Blackman@chem.utas.edu.au Chemistry Department University of Tasmania Hobart, Tasmania Australia ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 10:29:00 EDT From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Paper 6 - Short Question PAPER 6 - Short Question INDIVIDUAL COMPUTER-GENERATED GRAPHICAL PROBLEM SETS Frank M. Lanzafame, Monroe Community College, Chemistry Dept., 1000 East Henrietta Rd., Rochester, NY 14623 Internet: FLANZAFAME@ECKERT.ACADCOMP.MONROECC.EDU In Section VI > B. Generation of Statistical Fluctuations about a Value: > The program uses a function called ErrFactor (relative standard > deviation). This function returns a statistically generated > multiplier with a mean value of 1.00 and a standard deviation > given by the relative standard deviation specified. For > example, if it is desired to apply a 5 percent fluctuation to a > given value, the function called is ErrFactor (0.05). The > function returns a randomly generated value of 1.00 +/- 0.05 > which is applied as a multiplier to the value one wishes to > randomize. Thus a multiplier between 0.95 and 1.05 is generated > approximately 2 of 3 times. Since this follows a normal > distribution, occasionally one finds the 2 or 3 or 4 sigma > variation. This produces fluctuations with points which are > outside the limit (here 5 %) about 1 of 3 times. * In normal unweighted least squares calculations it is implicitly * assumed: * * 1. There is no error in X values, only in Y values. * 2. There is equal probability (0.5) of finding positive and negative * deviations from the true value of Y. * 3. The error in the value of Y is normally distributed (i.e. larger errors are less probable than smaller errors). * 4. The magnitude of the error in Y is independent of the value of X. * * QUESTION: Does your program generate errors which conform to * conditions 3 and 4? * * If the program multiplies the true value by a factor, * the error depends upon the value of X. * * There are algorithms which will generate normally * distributed errors which conform to condition 4. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 10:33:59 MDT From: Reed Howald Subject: paper 6 short questions - figures I have gotten the binary files from simon fraser university as suggested (I think) I have pgen11zp.exe, and an executable to unzip itself is the proper way to distribute zipped files. My question is where are the three figures referred to? Using GET PAPER6 FIGURE3 with LISTSERV doesn't work. sincerely Reed Howald ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 08:13:00 EDT From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Paper 7 - Short Questions Paper 7 INTEGRATING COMPUTERS INTO THE HIGH SCHOOL CHEMISTRY CLASSROOM William J. Sondgerath, Chemistry Teacher, Harrison High, West Lafayette, Indiana (BSONDGER@VM.CC.PURDUE.EDU) Short questions on this paper: July 6, 1993 QUESTIONS: How would your course with integrated appear from the perspective of a student or a teacher? 1. Is there a course text? Do most students read the book? 2. Do you lecture and provide time for class discussion and problem working sessions? 3. Are computers integrated into the class hours or do students use the computers during study hall hours and after school? 4. On the average what fraction of the course is devoted to each type of activity? What about traditional laboratory work? 5. Computer activities must replace other activities. Which are the activities replaced? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 16:32:25 EET From: Mirja Karjalainen Subject: Paper7 short questions Paper 7, short questions: I. How did you select the classes for CAI? Should the students have any prior computer skills? IX. I'm not familiar with the Safety in Science Lab software. Is it designed specially for the high school science education? How much does it contain data about properties of chemicals? Could I get some further information about it (a demo?) through the Internet? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 09:59:06 EDT From: "R. T. Wilson" Subject: Paper7 by William J. Sondergrath It sounds like you are doing a great job of bringing your students into productive contact with computers in a variety of ways. I have a few logistical questions: 1. How many students are in your typical lab, and how long are the lab periods? 2. How much time does a typical student require to finish an experiment and report which requires word-processing or a spreadsheet? Do they usually finish the report during the lab period, or do they have to do it later in the media center? 3. You say: Subject: short questions paper 6 I am concerned about the question Lanzaframe raises, how do we give our students more experience with graphing? I would hope integrating computers into courses can spped up certain processes, including data collection and graphing. My question is - Do you find that using computers gives your students more experience with graphing, or do you have a net loss of time to spend on fundamentals like graphing? sincerely Reed Howald ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 09:50:00 EDT From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Paper 8 - Short Questions PAPER 8 - Short Questions USING THE AIRWAVES: A SATELLITE M.S. FOR INDUSTRIAL CHEMISTS. K.J. Schray, N.D. Heindel, J.E. Brown. and M.A. Kercsmar. Department of Chemistry and Office of Distance Education, Lehigh University, Bethlehem, PA 18015 (KJS0@Lehigh.edu) QUESTIONS 1. Will you elaborate more on the format of these courses. a. How many times does a given course meet each week - and how long is each class meeting? b. How much class time is devoted to lecture in the "average course" and how much time is devoted to discussion and in-class problem solving? How much assigned homework is there? Do most of these graduate courses have a textbook and reading assignments? Since classes can be videotaped, there should be a good opportunity for analysis of how class time is utilized. c. If a student has a question and is on-site, hopefully he would raise his hand and be recognized. How do you handle off-site participants? - Do they just yell out? d. What fraction of the total number of students in the "average course" are off-site? e. How do student course evaluations compare when the same course is given by the same instructor in regular and satellite mode? How do on-site students react to the somewhat different format of this course? Are there significant differences between evaluations received fron on-site and off-site students? 2. Lehigh has opted to teach its courses synchronously rather than asynchronously. There are some advantages to this choice, but there are also distinct disadvantages. You allude to the scheduled time being a problem - particularly for students in different time zones. You indicate that back-up videotaping is used. Such tapes would be quite satisfactory for lectures and off-site students would be able to hear (and see) the discussion of on-site students. THIS conference is being held asynchronously. Participants have an opportunity to ask questions which authors (and other participants) answer at scheduled times. What would you think of a format involving taped classes (for off-site students), asynchronous questions, and a few synchronous discussion sessions (which could be taped and viewed asynchronously)? It seems to me you have an opportunity to experiment with somewhat different formats. 3. Is electronic mail being used at all? This could be a useful communication tool in research and courses. For example, see Linda M. Harasim (editor), "ONLINE EDUCATION: Perspectives on a New Environment",Praeger, New York, 1990. Have you considered the use of a LISTSERV with access controlled by the manager? (LISTSERV is being used to run this conference.) Donald Rosenthal Clarkson University Potsdam NY 13676 ROSEN@CLVM.BITNET ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 13:34:26 -0400 From: theresa Julia Zielinski Organization: University at Buffalo Subject: paper8 questions 1. Would you provide a reference for the 15000 to 6000 drop in BS chemists and 80% to 20% drop in those intending to do graduate work? 2. Could you provide some data for the numbers of non chemists entering positions in industry requiring a chemistry degree? 3. I would be interested in obtaining a course syllabus for the "bridge" physical Chemistry course. Theresa Julia Zielinski Niagara University Niagara University NY 14109 Roszieli@ubvms ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 15:29:13 -0500 From: George Long Organization: Indiana University of Pennsylvania Subject: Re: Paper 8 - Short Questions to follow up on Donald Rosenthal's question concerning the use of E-mail in the off-site courses, 1)do you think that it may be possible to teach these courses without the standard lecture format, using perhaps interactive computer worksheets( produced using mathematica). This would Eliminate the need for the expensive satelite uplink, and video production help could be given via EMAIL. On site students could take the lectureless courses as well. 2) what type of research projects are most common among your students? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 17:46:57 -0600 From: "Douglas A. Coe" Subject: Short Questions for Paper 8 I have three questions: 1. Lehigh's course numbering system seems to be non-standard. Can you briefly explain it? 2. Does Lehigh have master's programs that emphasize physical, inorganic, or other areas of chemistry, but which are not offered as satellite courses? If you do, are there plans to offer these as satellite courses? 3. What are the prerequisites for the courses listed in Table II. Doug Coe Montana Tech ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 05:35:15 CDT From: Charles Fox Subject: QUESTIONS-PAPER 8 I am interested in finding what the cost per hour or per course is for your MS/Chemistry via the air waves and how it compares to your normal coursework? Thanks, cfox@saunix.sau.edu Instructor St.Ambrose University 518 W. Locust St. Davenport, IA 52803 voice 319-383-8921 fax 319-383-8791 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 07:48:44 -0400 From: "Thomas C. O'Haver" Subject: Files for Papers 6 and 11 now complete on LISTSERV Dear CHEMCONFers: The figures for Paper 6 are now available on the LISTSERV database: PAPER6 TEXT PAPER6 FIGURE1 PAPER6 FIGURE2 PAPER6 FIGURE3 Paper 11 and its related files is now available on the LISTSERV database: PAPER11 TEXT PAPER11 BATCH PAPER11 EMAIL PAPER11 EXTRCR PAPER11 HINTS PAPER11 HWK PAPER11 MENU PAPER11 NOTES PAPER11 SYLABUS PAPER11 WRDLIST The meaning of these files is described in the paper itself, PAPER11 TEXT. Tom O'Haver CHEMCONF ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 07:59:28 -0500 From: "Steven G. O'Neal" Subject: Short Questions Paper 9 > But the need for training at a time of great transition is enormous. .... > Our employers, Federal and state agencies, foundations, and others must help > us find the time and money. I agree wholeheartedly! Many of us are also still struggling to find resources to obtain the necessary equipment and software. Would the members of the conference be willing to share successful strategies and sources toward gaining this important goal? Our community (Norman, OK) has created a foundation for competetive grants to acquire some materials or training, but the maximum amounts available ($1,000) are insufficient for computers, monitors, printers, etc. Any thoughts here would be welcome. Steven G. O'Neal, Ph.D. Norman Public Schools Steven G. O'Neal, Ph.D. 1220 Crossroads Court Norman, OK 73072 soneil@ncsa.uiuc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 07:58:47 -0500 From: Carolyn Sweeney Judd Subject: Re: Short Questions for Paper 9 In-Reply-To: <9307072346.AA07463@umd5.umd.edu> Great food for thought found in your paper! Can you elaborate on the following excerpt from your paper: > The currently available >programs, the successors to those distributed on the >ChemSource CD-ROMs, will check your chemistry at that level. What are these successors? Carolyn S. Judd Central College, Houston Community College System 1300 Holman Houston TX 77004 713-630-1103 cjudd@tenet.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 09:49:24 EDT From: "Frank M. Lanzafame" Subject: Paper 7 viewing SOND*.PIC files I have been unable to view the figures with Paper 7 using VPIC ver. 5.0 This viewer has worked with all GIF files for all other papers. The program indicates the files are not valid PIC files. I have used binary to FTP the files. Has anyone else had similar problems, or success in viewing (and with what viewer on a PC)? Thanks in advance. Frank Lanzafame flanzafame@eckert.acadcomp.monroecc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 09:47:00 EDT From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Paper 9 - Short Questions PAPER 9 - Short Questions Staff Development is the Biggest Cost in Computing: Ask For Released Time! David W. Brooks, University of Nebraska-Lincoln, Lincoln, Nebraska 68588-0355 E-mail: dbrooks@unlinfo.unl.edu In this paper you make a number of interesting comments > We have to begin with ourselves, not > our students. .... Are we well enough prepared? > The answer is almost certainly, 'no.' > Ask for released time. > How little training can one have and still be an > effective tool user? QUESTION 1 In your paper you mention - CAI, grading, word processing, spreadsheets, being aware of software that is available, etc. a. What do TEACHERS need to know? b. Suppose a teacher has had an introductory programming course, (s)he knows how to turn on a computer and load software. What should (s)he be taught in a one semester course entitled "Computers for Chemical Educators"? --------------------------------------------------------------- > Time spent in having students acquire skills that pit them > against the software now available is wasted time. There > are drill and practice program that really help to build > skills in certain areas -- gas law problems, mole problems, > assigning oxidation numbers, naming compounds and writing > formulas, etc. The existence of these programs is prima > facie evidence that the skill probably is not a worthy skill > to teach! QUESTION 2 If STUDENTS are not to use the software which is now available - spreadsheets, word processors and existing CAI, what should they be doing? QUESTION 3 a. Are you saying that students don't really need to know how to solve gas law problems, mole problems, naming compounds and writing formulas, because we have computers that can do this for us? If we really understand something, we should be able to use our knowledge and apply it (to solving problems). b. Should children be taught to add, subtract, multiply and divide? After all,we have calculators which can do this for us. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 09:01:24 EST From: "William J. Sondgerath" Subject: Re: Paper 7 viewing SOND*.PIC files In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 8 Jul 1993 09:49:24 EDT from I apologize for not having a way to view pic.files. I tried to get help from Purdue University to convert to gif. The only way that I know you could view would be to have access to storyboard plus from IBM or simply the file called storyboard driver. Sorry about inconvenience. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 10:24:00 EDT From: to2 Subject: Re: Paper 7 viewing SOND*.PIC files In-Reply-To: <9307081343.AA09625@umd5.umd.edu> I was also unable to view these files. There are evidently some sort of special non-standard format, dispite the standard extension. The author does not know how to convert these to a standard format and I do not have access to the (commercial) software that generated the figures in the first place. I think we're stuck in this case. Tom O'Haver ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 09:23:50 MDT From: Reed Howald Subject: short questions paper 9 >ask for released time >Yes, that includes art teachers, music teachers, and . . . This is a challenging paper. But we can't all get years of released time. Is it possible to devise computer assisted instruction that would show a music teacher how to use computers in his or her daily classroom use in two or three hours total time? Do we need to concentrate on software for his or her students instead? What will happen when students exposed to this training get to our freshman chemistry classes 5 to 20 years from now? Sincerely, Reed Howald ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 12:18:56 EST From: Larry Wier Organization: Saint Bonaventure University Subject: Paper 9 - Short Questions As pointed out by Dr.Brooks, the "hidden" cost of and need for training are both extremely large. Does anyone have strategies for convincing administrators of this? How does one get that release time? Also, how does one convince others that such training is a worthwhile use of one's time? (It probably does not qualify as "research" in the eyes of many.) Larry Wier ============================== Dr Larry Wier Dept of Chemistry St Bonaventure University St Bonaventure, N.Y. 14778 (716)375-2116 INTERNET:lwier@sbu.edu ============================== ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 13:10:42 -0400 From: Undetermined origin c/o Postmaster Is PIC the same as PICT? If so then use picttopbm then pbmtorast then rasttoppm & ppmtogif or ppmtops OR if you have a laserjet picttopbm then pbmtolj Get the pbmplus family of format converters from ftp.uu.net An archie search came up with a lot of hits (68)for /pic especially in connection with groff and 386-bsd/unix -- e.g. /systems/unix/bsd-sources/usr.bin/groff/pic on ftp.uu.net This (groff) is apparently gnu-ware so I would look in the gnu archives for pic manipulation programs (since apparently groff makes pic files which must eventually be printed!). Mike Whitbeck whitbeck@maxey.unr.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 12:42:43 -0500 From: david brooks Subject: Re: Paper 9 - Short Questions In-Reply-To: <01H0ALJD1YJ4002QS6@crcvms.unl.edu> from "Donald Rosenthal" at Jul 8, 93 09:47:00 am Responses to Don's short questions: Citations from my text labeled as >> Copies of his question material labeled as ?? ?? In this paper you make a number of interesting comments >> We have to begin with ourselves, not >> our students. .... Are we well enough prepared? >> The answer is almost certainly, 'no.' >> Ask for released time. >> How little training can one have and still be an >> effective tool user? ?? In your paper you mention - CAI, grading, word processing, ?? spreadsheets, being aware of software that is available, ?? etc. ?? a. What do TEACHERS need to know? Teachers need to KNOW that machines will DO most of the "intellectual" work that well-trained professionals once did. Knowing that is much more than being able to spout it back -- it means having a sort of knee-jerk reaction to a problem in which the teacher turns first to a computer for assistance, guidance, and perhaps solutions. Teachers need to KNOW that the tools used in a task change the nature of the task -- even when the task is "thinking." ?? b. Suppose a teacher has had an ?? introductory programming course, (s)he knows how to turn ?? on a computer and load software. What should (s)he be ?? taught in a one semester course entitled "Computers for ?? Chemical Educators"? This is THE most important practical question. Even if we don't know where we are headed, it makes no sense to do (teach) nothing until 'things settle down.' It is agreed that we will teach something. Interfacing experiments and automating the process of collecting data is important. Widespread use of a very large variety of software packages is the best kind of introduction we can make. My best guess is to focus on achieving outcomes rather than worrying either about creating or understanding deeply the software leading to those outcomes. In other words, I would be much more interested in having students use a prepared worksheet (template) for stoichiometry than in creating all of the cell formulas that perform stoichiometry calculations for them. Many years back, a group at UCLA made a step in this direction by publishing a book in which spreadsheets formulae were given to handle essentially all of the computations used in an introductory biochemistry course for majors. I would cite the book, but it disappeared from my bookshelf. Sandra Lamb at UCLA chemistry was involved. She has a very good sense of 'the possible' with respect to instructional computing in chemistry. The Beaker program created by an author at this conference has numerous features to help one think. It was her program that cemented an idea for me two years ago. After seeing a half- dozen exhibitors demonstrate powerful molecular structure programs, I sat down during a symposium session and heard a speaker discuss the teaching of nomenclature using CAI. The punch line was meta-nitroanisole. From the molecular structure programs, it was clear that one could create meta- nitroanisole on a computer screen. One might not know if that substance had a history or even what it might be named, but just know that it was a good molecule to accomplish a particular task -- say binding to a protein. It was clear to me that some day one could 'circle' in the computer sense of that word any structure drawn on the screen and get back not only its name but a raft of information about the substance. The first structure I created with Beaker was -- you guessed it! It doesn't give that name back. I bet you can guess the name it does give back!! If you follow my suggestion, your students will never know of meta-nitroanisole unless they look up alternative names in a database or enter that name into a machine! The remarkable thing to me was that Beaker already existed and was available when the thought first occurred to me -- ignorance impeded my thinking. The world already was where I thought it might one day be. Using software tools changes how we think. That usage changes which tasks we think are important. That usage changes how we undertake tasks. ------------------------------------------------------------ I WANT TO ANSWER DON'S QUESTIONS OUT OF ORDER >> Time spent in having students acquire skills that pit them >> against the software now available is wasted time. There >> are drill and practice program that really help to build >> skills in certain areas -- gas law problems, mole problems, >> assigning oxidation numbers, naming compounds and writing >> formulas, etc. The existence of these programs is prima >> facie evidence that the skill probably is not a worthy >> skill to teach! I'M MOVING AHEAD TO QUESTION 3B . ?? QUESTION 3 ?? b. Should children be taught to add, subtract, multiply and ?? divide? After all, we have calculators which can do this ?? for us. Children today are not taught to multiply and divide in the same way that I was taught. They are taught to use machines (calculators). Both of my children (ages 23 and 21) would never think of doing arithmetic by head and hand. They use head and machine. One of them is at least as good a mathematician as I ever was, and the other is so much better that it makes my head spin. The time that I spent learning skills she has spent in learning more and more powerful mathematical concepts. Machines perform the skills for her. Are the children of today better (or worse) than I am or -- if you're past 35, you are? Who knows? They certainly are different. Finally, for reasons that are well understood, unused skills wane. My mental arithmetic skills are not only much poorer than they used to be, they are much poorer than they were 10 years ago when I taught general chemistry. There was a sharp number sense that came with head and hand skills that, for me at least, does not seem necessary for head and machine tasks. In summary, machines make the thinking process different and, therefore, make the people using them different. There are very real limits to this. All of us would be "better" if we knew al of the knowledge available in our libraries. The existence of knowledge in the world does not in and of itself enhance problem solving. If an internist is always looking up potassium, then my guess is that many of her/his patients die "out of balance." There are some things one needs to know. To use Donald Norman's jargon, there is some knowledge we need to "have in our head" and not just "in the world." I have little respect for colleagues immersed in a complex task who say 'there's software to do that' but have no idea of the software, what it does, or what it means. A professional knows what the software does at more than a glib, cocktail party level. QUESTION 2 ?? If STUDENTS are not to use the software which is now ?? available - spreadsheets, word processors and existing CAI, ?? what should they be doing? Interfacing experiments makes a great deal of sense to teach. There is no problem in teaching (rather in requiring the use of) a modern word processor. It doesn't write for you -- it helps you to write. More important, it handles the technical aspects of writing. Creating new, clear thoughts is still the task of the writer and not the software. Writing with LATEX is something you do when you don't own or can't access a good $1K machine with $200 worth of software. (Yes, that was a shot.) Spreadsheets are a different matter. For spreadsheets, there are opportunities for: a. creating cell formulae b. entering data into templates It is a general sense that most work today focuses on the former. My sense is that not only is the latter OK, it's good -- something to be preferred instead of disdained. Sorry, I don't use a hand calculator to check the arithmetic outputted from MacInTax. Analyzing data with graphics programs makes sense. Creating problem sets where different analyses give different results also makes sense. Using different approaches within software packages is probably the best way to teach data analysis that we have available today. CAI is an entirely different matter. If the CAI is drill and practice oriented -- say aimed at making the student a better balancer of chemical equations -- then the time is mostly wasted. Wasted! The kind of CAI that makes the most sense is the stuff that comes with the software package teaching you how to use that package. So far, the considerable time I have spent learning to use Internet has not paid off. Phones and fax machines are still ahead. Internet is catching up. ?? QUESTION 3 ?? a. Are you saying that students don't really need to know ?? how to solve gas law problems, mole problems, naming ?? compounds and writing formulas, because we have computers ?? that can do this for us? If we really understand ?? something, we should be able to use our knowledge and apply ?? it (to solving problems). ?? b. Should children be taught to add, subtract, multiply and ?? divide? After all, we have calculators which can do this ?? for us. Understanding is a word with the kind of definition that amounts to no definition. Here is an official definition of "understand": (Webster's Unabridged) "to apprehend or comprehend; to know or grasp the meaning, import, intention, or motive of; to perceive or discern the meaning of; as, to UNDERSTAND a problem, an argument, an oracle, a secret sign, indistinct speech, etc." What does it mean to UNDERSTAND a mole problem? Two ideas underpin mole problems: conservation of atoms, and (almost) constant mass of atoms. At one level, a person can parrot that back. At another level, they can know that these two ideas imply that a set of mathematical relationships can be written to express the ideas. At a quite different level, one can transform those ideas into mathematical rules, and take a set of numbers (or data) to predict other numbers. Creating spreadsheet formulae amounts to one step beyond the latter. A prepared spreadsheet (a template) can do ALL of the crunching for a general chemistry student. A question that remains is "what must a teacher do to enable the learner be able to use the spreadsheet template appropriately." That is, how much head and calculator instead of head and spreadsheet work is appropriate in order to make use of the template effectively? The answer lies somewhere between solving no stoichiometry problems at all and solving any stoichiometry problem that the spreadsheet might be capable of solving. I suspect the equilibrium position lies to the left, toward the no crunching side. Understanding certainly does not include writing cell formulas -- that is not chemistry, even though ever chemist respects it and knows that it takes a very competent chemist to do it or to team with someone who does it. On the other hand, if a spreadsheet is a tool for chemists and you want to be creative, then you need to be able to write cell formulae or otherwise instruct a spreadsheet. Even though writing spreadsheet templates is not a chemist's business, it is probably something most chemists ultimately want to know. It is hard to say how long that skill will be important, but one suspects that it is not long lived. How to design a balance of approaches and topics in teaching chemistry remains an unanswered question. Teachers who spend much of their time on crunching as was spent ten years ago clearly are on the wrong path. That is too much time to spend on head and calculator crunching. I doubt, however, that I successfully can cover conservation of atoms and conservation of mass in just one lecture period. The message can be transmitted in seconds, but it takes days to receive. The ideas must be tied to other ideas within the student in order for reception to occur. I admit to having used some functions from Mathematica to crunch for me that I have no idea either what they did or how they did it. The result was judged on the basis of chemical sense -- not mathematical sense. Black boxes used to be very scary. The more one uses them, the less scary they are. THE MAIN THEME OF THIS PAPER IS THAT CHEMISTRY TEACHERS NEED TO SPEND A GREAT DEAL OF TIME LEARNING ABOUT WHAT MODERN TOOLS WILL DO FOR THEM AS INTELLECTUAL PARTNERS. IF YOU KNOW WHAT THEY CAN DO, YOU HAVE A BETTER SENSE OF WHAT TO TEACH ABOUT USING THEM. MANY OF THE DISCUSSIONS IN THE FIRST PHASE OF THIS CONFERENCE SUPPORT THAT NOTION! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 12:48:01 -0500 From: david brooks Subject: Re: Short Questions for Paper 9 In-Reply-To: <01H0AJRMYKEO002BT3@crcvms.unl.edu> from "Carolyn Sweeney Judd" at Jul 8, 93 07:58:47 am > > Great food for thought found in your paper! Can you elaborate on the > following excerpt from your paper: > > The currently available > >programs, the successors to those distributed on the > >ChemSource CD-ROMs, will check your chemistry at that level. > What are these successors? > > Carolyn S. Judd > Central College, Houston Community College System > 1300 Holman Houston TX 77004 > 713-630-1103 cjudd@tenet.edu > When it is born, ChemSource is going to be one of the largest, heaviest babies ever. It is many months overdue. Connected with ChemSource are two other tools -- Chemistry Lesson Planning and Chemistry Laboratory Assistant. The CLA tool has the abilit to create and modify recipes for preparing solution and chemicals used by students. Look for CehmSource in December, 1993. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 14:48:00 CDT From: "J.J. Lagowski" Subject: paper 5 late The discussions concerning SQUALOR and inorganic qualitative analysis seem to suggest that these laboratory activities are supposed to reflect the way "real chemists" do analysis. The other point of view is that they represent an interesting way to learn some descriptive chemistry (which everyone agrees as dead boring) and it has nothing to do with what "real chemists" do, rather it is a way of learning what "real chemists" know. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 17:17:24 -0500 From: John Woolcock Organization: Indiana University of Pennsylvania Subject: Re: Paper 9 - Short Questions >Many years back, a group at UCLA made a step in this direction >by publishing a book in which spreadsheets formulae were given >to handle essentially all of the computations used in an >introductory biochemistry course for majors. I would cite the >book, but it disappeared from my bookshelf. The book you remember is entitled "Dynamic Models in Biochemistry" by Atkinson, Clarke and Rees. There are two others: "Dynamic Models in Chemistry" and "Dynamic Models in Physics". Available from N. Simonson & Co., Marina del Rey, CA Telephone: (213) 301-2847. These come with disks for Mac or PC which contain the spreadsheet templates. The text has tutorials on how students can create their own templates including the cell formulas for stoichiometry, kinetics, etc. However, we tend to only ask our students to do what we have already done ourselves. I will never use this in my courses until I have gone through it myself. This takes time that I don't have so it has been sitting on my shelf for 2 years! You are absolutely correct that one of the biggest impediments to the implementation of any teaching strategy is finding "faculty development time" to learn to use it. John Woolcock Chemistry Department Indiana University of PA WOOLCOCK@grove.iup.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 00:17:28 -0400 From: theresa Julia Zielinski Organization: University at Buffalo Subject: paper9 - questions Questions: 1. Some of us have considerable investments in IBM PC type machines and can't or won't switch especially since windows makes work so easy. Is there a software package for the PC market that is equivalent to HyperCard? 2. We who are participating in this conference have various levels of computer skills. I doubt that I could write a tutorial program for student use without spending allot of time and energy. Nevertheless I firmly believe that computers should be used extensively in undergraduate instruction. I know that I am not alone but sometimes I feel isolated when I hear colleagues remark that the only way a student learns about graphing is with a pencil and paper. How do we effectively get the message out that more can be learned by using a computer effectively? I think that there is a need to see more articles in J.Chem Ed. on this subject. Especially one on developing the idea of using computers as tools for learning and drill. 3. What does one do with/to colleagues who refuse to use software even when it is available? Part of the problem is, as you pointed out, that there is a steep learning curve for the novice and there are many novice chemistry faculty out there, those who can't or won't even learn word processing. Another part is that there is a tradition of poor quality CAI programs from the past that has left a bad impression on established teachers. There just doesn't seem to be enough experience at the grass roots level to make a significant difference yet. Perhaps a critical mass of interested faculty needs to be developed before substantial change can occur. 4. Another problem that I see as inhibiting the spread of computer usage is the poor reception given to development of learning tools and innovative curricula when evaluating a young faculty member for promotion or tenure. There is a need to recognize that research into and development of CAI software is an appropriate activity for faculty. If I do pedagogical research then it is OK because I'm a woman or because I teach at a small school and there isn't much else to do. If I do research in QM or MD or Modeling then it's just theory and who believes that anyway. It's a no win situation with many students feeling that they are incapable of participating. How can we present our computer expertise especially to novice students so that they do not feel intimidated by it all and go off to study history or criminal justice? Theresa Julia Zielinski Niagara University Chemistry Department Niagara University NY 14109 Roszieli@UBVMS ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 07:05:00 EDT From: to2 Subject: Paper 9 : Short Questions James Kaput uses the term "cognative technology" to label those constructed tools and technologies that help us think and communicate better that we could without them. The most important of those historically are probably writing, arabic numerals, printing, symbolic notation, and now, perhaps, computers. These technologies are empowering; for example, any child using arabic numerals today can perform arithemitic tasks that a senator of ancient Rome could not. Do you feel that the computer will eventually, say in 10 or 20 years, develop into a cognative technology at that level of importance? Consider how we build writing and mathematics into our education systems continuously from day one. Will we someday grow up with computers as we all grow up with mathematics? To some extent it is already happening in some school systems, where 5-6 graders are doing most of their "serious" writing on computers. (Kids pick this sort of thing up much faster than adults and teachers). In 5 years these kids will be in high school and in 10 years in college. What must we do to prepare for them? Tom O'Haver U. of Maryland ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 12:13:43 -0400 From: theresa Julia Zielinski Organization: University at Buffalo Subject: paper10 questions Questions Paper 10 1. How much math and pchem (courses/semester hours) do the students take prior to this course? 2. What windows development tool is used to develop hyperbook? (Boy would I like to work on a pchem HyperBook project) 3. I would like to have an english copy of the course topics for the pchem course(s) that is(are) prerequisite to this course. 4. I am currently writing up a Mathcad exercise for item B1 of your paper. It should be ready by mid August. My students enjoy working this way to learn. they learn more and they learn more deeply. 5. I think that my students would enjoy the oscillating kinetics experiment. Would you pass on one or two english references to get me started. 6. What is the source of data for figures 8, 9, & 10. 7. For figure 11, can students rotate and view it from different angles. Diagrams of this type are very useful pedagogically. Where does one get a copy of SURFER? Theresa Julia Zielinski Chemistry Department Niagara University Niagara University NY 14109 Roszieli@ubvms ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 11:56:58 -0500 From: david brooks Subject: Re: Paper 9 : Short Questions In-Reply-To: <01H0BV0O7RTS002Q7Z@crcvms.unl.edu> from "to2" at Jul 9, 93 07:05:00 am Try reading "Cognitive Artifacts" by Donald Norman in Designing Interaction, J. M. Carroll, ed., Cambridge, Cambridge, ISBN 0-521-40921-7 pbk, 1991, pp. 17-38. >> Do you feel that the computer will eventually, say in 10 >> or 20 years, develop into a cognative technology at that >> level of importance? The time scale is off. In our world, it already has. When I came to Nebraska, it was because they would support TA training using video. Video was too big a deal for the place I left in 1973. Hard to imagine, isn't it. Early on during the intervening 20 years, the rate of home sales of player recorders reached 1 million units per month. >> Will we someday grow up with computers as we all grow up >> with mathematics? Yes. >> What must we do to prepare for them? Bring ourselves up to speed first. Ask for a leave! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 11:58:26 -0500 From: david brooks Subject: Re: paper9 - questions In-Reply-To: <01H0BHCZWZDU002ML0@crcvms.unl.edu> from "theresa Julia Zielinski" at Jul 9, 93 00:17:28 am >>Is there a software package for the PC market that is >> equivalent to HyperCard? 1. Toolbook by Asymmetrix PO Box 40419, Bellevue WA 206- 637-1600 is the best. There are two that advertise cross platform features. Plus has been around for several years. Windowcraft just came out. >> How do we effectively get the message out that more can >> be learned by using a computer effectively? I think that >> there is a need to see more articles in J. Chem Ed. on >> this subject. Especially one on developing the idea of >> using computers as tools for learning and drill. 2. Most CAI is designed to pit students against machines -- to impart the machine's skill to the student. Poor strategy -- the learners always lose. (When they are recognizing pictures, they may operate at 100 MIPS, but when they're solving mole problems, they can't.) The computer is my friend; it is my main tool. Teach me how to use the tool. >> What does one do with/to colleagues who refuse to use >> software even when it is available? 3. Worry about ourselves; let someone else worry about our colleagues. >>..the poor reception given to development of learning >> tools and innovative curricula when evaluating a young >> faculty member for promotion or tenure. 4.. There are several avenues to publication that can be counted just the same as tradition work. J. Chem. Educ. software is one. There are 10-15 reviewed publications put out by the ISTE (International Society for Technology in Education), 800-336-5191. Finally, traditional publications such as J. Chem. Educ., J. Research in Sci. Tchg, J. Coll. Sci. Tchg., etc., regularly publish contributions of this nature. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 10:10:53 PDT From: David Green Subject: Re: spreadsheets In-Reply-To: ; from "John Woolcock" at Jul 8, 93 5:17 pm > > >Many years back, a group at UCLA made a step in this direction > >by publishing a book in which spreadsheets formulae were given > >to handle essentially all of the computations used in an > >introductory biochemistry course for majors. I would cite the > >book, but it disappeared from my bookshelf. > > The book you remember is entitled "Dynamic Models in Biochemistry" by Atkinson > Clarke and Rees. There are two others: "Dynamic Models in Chemistry" and > "Dynamic Models in Physics". Available from N. Simonson & Co., Marina del Rey, > CA Telephone: (213) 301-2847. These come with disks for Mac or PC which contai > the spreadsheet templates. The text has tutorials on how students can create > their own templates including the cell formulas for stoichiometry, kinetics, > etc. > > > John Woolcock > Chemistry Department > Indiana University of PA > WOOLCOCK@grove.iup.edu > Another book with spreadsheet templates that I have used a few from is "Concepts and Calculations in Analytical Chemistry, a Spreadsheet Approach", by Henry Freiser, CRC press. It covers stoich, equilibrium, activity, and other things. The sheets are written for QPro for DOS but are very easily converted to 1-2-3, Excel, and QPro for Windows. The student will need to have a little prowess on the spreadsheet to do the problems. David Green Natural Science Division Pepperdine University Malibu CA dgreen@pepvax.bitnet dgreen@pepvax.pepperdine.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 14:11:00 EDT From: "Peter Gold, Penn State U. (814) 865-7694" Subject: Re: spreadsheets In-Reply-To: DGREEN AT PEPVAX.BITNET -- Fri, 9 Jul 1993 10:10:53 PDT Yet another book on using spreadsheets to solve chemistry problems is O. J. Parker and Gary L. Breneman, "Spreadsheet Chemistry" (Prentice-Hall, 1991). ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 11:43:02 -0700 From: Sandra Lamb Subject: Re: Paper 9 - Short Questions For Don, there is a program called HyperBook for the PC that allows you to convert hypercard files to pc readable and useable programs. It is analagous to Hypercard. A good person to talk to about that is Paul Schatz, UWis, he has used it to convert Spectra Deck for the Mac to SpectraBook for the PC. Also, I would be happy to answer any spreadsheet questions. They are very powerful for doing chemistry problems of all types, including reaction kinetics and thermodynamics. I strongly recommend teaching students how to set up their own spreadsheets rather than using a template although there is time involved in teaching students how to handle the spreadsheet software. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 14:56:43 CST From: JOHN GELDER Organization: Oklahoma State University Subject: spreadsheets The phone number for N. Simonson & Co is (310) 301-2847. The area code has changed. Dave Barclay handles the book. He has an e-mail address of 2849430@mcimail.com if you want to go directly to him. John Gelder Department of Chemistry Oklahoma State University Stillwater, OK 74078 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 09:46:00 EDT From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Discussion of Paper 10 It is now 9:48 EST on Friday, July 9,1993 Short Questions for Paper 10 should be sent to CHEMCONF during this day. Discussion of this paper will not begin for several weeks. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 09:58:00 EDT From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Paper 10 - Short Questions PAPER 10 - SHORT QUESTIONS PERSONAL COMPUTERS IN TEACHING PHYSICAL CHEMISTRY Aleksei A. Kubasov, Vassilii S.Lyutsarev, Kirill V.Ermakov, Chemical Faculty of Moscow State University, Moscow, Russian Republic. E-MAIL: LASER@mch.chem.msu.su > The advanced course in Physical Chemistry for students of > Chemical Faculty of Moscow State University > Special group of students with profound studying of mathematics > and physical chemistry ... Fundamental course of physical chemistry > for these students ... QUESTION 1 a. How many students are there in this course? b. Are these undergraduate or graduate students? c. If they are undergraduate students, is this the first course in physical chemistry these students have taken, or is this an advanced course? d. How much chemical kinetics have they been taught prior to taking this course? e. How many students are there at Moscow State University? How many undergraduate and graduate chemistry majors? How large a chemistry faculty does the University have? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Reform freshman computer course. QUESTION 2 a. Prior to taking your course, how much of a background in computers do the students have? b. Do all chemistry majors take a freshman computing course? c. What is presently taught in the freshman computing course? d. What computing facilities are available for students generally at Moscow State University? e. What computing facilities are available for students taking your course? Do you have enough computers for the number of students you are teaching? Do students routinely use word processing? Donald Rosenthal Clarkson University Potsdam NY 13676 ROSEN@CLVM.BITNET ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 17:03:00 EDT From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Paper 10 - Short Questions PAPER 10 - SHORT QUESTIONS PERSONAL COMPUTERS IN TEACHING PHYSICAL CHEMISTRY Aleksei A. Kubasov, Vassilii S.Lyutsarev, Kirill V.Ermakov, Chemical Faculty of Moscow State University, Moscow, Russian Republic. E-MAIL: LASER@mch.chem.msu.su > The advanced course in Physical Chemistry for students of > Chemical Faculty of Moscow State University > Special group of students with profound studying of mathematics > and physical chemistry ... Fundamental course of physical chemistry > for these students ... QUESTION 1 a. How many students are there in this course? b. Are these undergraduate or graduate students? c. If they are undergraduate students, is this the first course in physical chemistry these students have taken, or is this an advanced course? d. How much chemical kinetics have they been taught prior to taking this course? e. How many students are there at Moscow State University? How many undergraduate and graduate chemistry majors? How large a chemistry faculty does the university have? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Reform freshman computer course. QUESTION 2 a. Prior to taking your course, how much of a background in computers do the students have? b. Do all chemistry majors take a freshman computing course? c. What is presently taught in the freshman computing course? d. What computing facilities are available for students generally at Moscow State University? e. What computing facilities are available for students taking your course? Do you have enough computers for the number of students you are teaching? Do students routinely use word processing? Donald Rosenthal Clarkson University Potsdam NY 13676 ROSEN@CLVM.BITNET ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 20:51:02 EDT From: Jim Holler Subject: Re: paper9 - questions In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 9 Jul 1993 11:58:26 -0500 from >4.. There are several avenues to publication that can be >counted just the same as tradition work. J. Chem. Educ. >software is one. There are 10-15 reviewed publications put >out by the ISTE (International Society for Technology in >Education), 800-336-5191. Finally, traditional publications >such as J. Chem. Educ., J. Research in Sci. Tchg, J. Coll. >Sci. Tchg., etc., regularly publish contributions of this >nature. At most state universities, faculty get demerits for publishing in these journals. Until this attitude changes, we cannot in good conscience that young faculty members publish in this way. Someday maybe. Not now. Jim Holler Phone: 606-257-5884 Department of Chemistry FAX: 606-258-1069 University of Kentucky Email: HOLLER@UKCC.UKY.EDU Lexington, KY 40506 ======================================================================= ANNOUNCEMENT & CORRECTION: Section IV: The simulated potentiometric titration problem set HAS now been ported to the program which is available by anonymous FTP. It is included in version 1.1 of the program, not 1.0 which was first submitted with the paper. Thus, PGEN11ZP.EXE, is the self-extracting zipped version 1.1 of the package, including the potentiometric titration problem. ====================================================================== From: Reed Howald > I have pgen11zp.exe, ... where are the three figures referred to? Since you have pgen11zp.exe, the three figures are included there, PAPRFIG1.GIF, PAPRFIG2.GIF, and PAPRFIG3.GIF Additionally, they are available via FTP from FTP: info.umd.edu Directory: info/Teaching/ChemConference/Paper06 Both GIF and UUE versions are available in this directory. > Using GET PAPER6 FIGURE3 with LISTSERV doesn't work. Copies of the three figures were not initially placed in the listserv filelist. They are currently in place and can be obtained by the above command. ====================================================================== From: Donald Rosenthal > In Section VI >> B. Generation of Statistical Fluctuations about a Value: >> The program uses a function called ErrFactor (relative standard >> deviation). This function returns a statistically generated >> multiplier with a mean value of 1.00 and a standard deviation >> given by the relative standard deviation specified. For >> example, if it is desired to apply a 5 percent fluctuation to a >> given value, the function called is ErrFactor (0.05). The >> function returns a randomly generated value of 1.00 +/- 0.05 >> which is applied as a multiplier to the value one wishes to >> randomize. Thus a multiplier between 0.95 and 1.05 is generated >> approximately 2 of 3 times. Since this follows a normal >> distribution, occasionally one finds the 2 or 3 or 4 sigma >> variation. This produces fluctuations with points which are >> outside the limit (here 5 %) about 1 of 3 times. > In normal unweighted least squares calculations it is implicitly > assumed: > > 1. There is no error in X values, only in Y values. > 2. There is equal probability (0.5) of finding positive and negative > deviations from the true value of Y. > 3. The error in the value of Y is normally distributed (i.e. larger > errors are less probable than smaller errors). > 4. The magnitude of the error in Y is independent of the value of X. > > QUESTION: Does your program generate errors which conform to > conditions 3 and 4? Yes, all conditions including 3. and 4. are satisfied. As indicated in Section VI A., The random number routines were taken from "Microsoft Quickbasic Programmer's Toolbox" by John Clark Craig, Microsoft Press, ISBN 1-1-55615-127-6, p. 353-364. "RandShuffle (key$)" was changed to "RandomizeOn (seed)" to make it both more readable and more like the "Randomize seed" in QuickBasic. "RandNormal! (mean!, stddev!)" was programmed as a function, and changed to "ErrFactor (RelativeStandardDeviation)" with mean value set to 1. and passing the relative standard deviation to the function. In this way if you want to apply a 5% random fluctuation to a given set of values the BASIC syntax is Y = Y * ErrFactor(0.05) The Y values ARE normally distributed with larger errors being less probable than smaller errors. The error produced in Y is independent of the value of X and dependent only upon the relative standard deviation desired. One does need to be careful in selecting the relative standard deviation, because one can expect to see the 2, 3, and 4 sigma variations with the appropriate frequency. > If the program multiplies the true value by a factor, > the error depends upon the value of X. I am not clear what is meant here. The error generated depends upon the value of Y being changed, and the relative standard deviation in Y which is sought. Y's are generated from X values according to the relationships of the particular phenomena. The fluctuations are then applied to the generated values of Y. > There are algorithms which will generate normally > distributed errors which conform to condition 4. I believe this is such an algorithm. The magnitude of the error in Y is independent of the magnitude of X, but is dependent on the magnitude of Y since what is being specified here is the relative standard deviation in Y. ====================================================================== From: Reed Howald > I am concerned about the question Lanzafame raises, how do we give > our students more experience with graphing? I would hope > integrating computers into courses can speed up certain processes, > including data collection and graphing. My question is - Do you > find that using computers gives your students more experience with > graphing, or do you have a net loss of time to spend on fundamentals > like graphing? You raise some very interesting questions. 1. I use the computer to generate unique problems for the individual student to do. The principal advantage is that one can grade the assignments with more confidence that each student is doing his own work and not copying someone else's work and submitting it. What I find from grading the exercises is that many students do not have the ability to work with linear relationships that they think they have. This is quite evident when I have computer generated keys for each data set that a student analyzes graphically. In this respect, I think that it does help to provide a bit more experience and, with answer keys, a better experience. I hand back the answer keys with the graded assignments. 2. I suspect that the use of computers to "speed up certain processes" is a bit more controversial. (I only very reluctantly stopped requiring my students to use a slide rule. ;-) ) I think that there is pedagogic value in manually plotting graphs and putting the best line through the data. While there is the perception (by students and some faculty) that students already have these skills, my experience with these graphical problem sets is that too many students do not. I think there is a lesson to be learned from the high school algebra problem. Here, the practice and drill of algebra and word problems was considered a waste of time. All students had to do was learn the principles. After all, those of us with experience and hindsight could see the few principles whose applications were really quite repetitive. If the student mastered the few principles, they could certainly apply these principles and "do algebra". The result is that all too many high school graduates cannot "do algebra" and of course, there is no point in struggling with menial algebra when doing calculus. The result is sometimes students who cannot take the principles of calculus to a real answer because they cannot "do algebra". I confess that I am bothered when I find that students are using graphing software to process data at the general chemistry level. I believe that the manual processes should be mastered before using a graphing software. If those skills are mastered in the general course, I believe that the software solution can be used profitably by students in later courses. We must keep in mind that most of these problem sets are used with General Chemistry students. After these skills are mastered, I am less concerned with allowing students in Physical Chemistry, for example, to use computers for linear regression and graphing. 3. I guess there is "a net loss of time ... spent on fundamentals like graphing" relative to what could be done using software packages. In my opinion, this is time which must be spent when students do not already have these skills. 4. In our second year analytical course, students learn to calculate regression results from x's, y's, and sums of squares etc. We believe they should learn how to do the basic calculations before using regression programs like black boxes. Too many regression programs do not calculate the errors in the slope and intercept with which the student can propagate the errors in quantities derived from these regression slopes and intercepts. In the analytical course, the computer generated potentiometric titration of an unknown polyprotic acid mixture provides an experience which parallels the mixed phosphate titration which is done in the lab but provides some unique aspects. Here, students can analyze titration curves for acid mixtures which would be difficult to construct in the laboratory with accurately known compositions. This is not a graphing exercise of linear relationships. Further, we take the opportunity to have students analyze the end points using first and second derivatives. This shows what "noise" does to a signal which is differentiated. It vividly explains the sensitivity of the first derivative mode on the auto-titrator. Students are graded on their interpretation of the titration curve and the written laboratory report. The mixed phosphate grade is based on the quantitative results. ====================================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------- | Frank M. Lanzafame Department of Chemistry | | Monroe Community College 1000 East Henrietta Rd. | | Rochester, NY 14623 (716) 292-2000 Ext. 5130 | | Internet: flanzafame@eckert.acadcomp.monroecc.edu | ----------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 11:34:19 -0400 From: theresa Julia Zielinski Organization: University at Buffalo Subject: Help - Name of Book Some time in the last week or two a reference was given for a revies , that is, review article about computers in chemical education. I can't find the citation in all the pages of paper that I have accumulated. I would appreciate the title and author again. Thank you. Theresa Julia Zielinski Niagara University Roszieli@ubvms ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 11:10:01 MDT From: Reed Howald Subject: paper 6 discussion Paper 6 discussion errors Rosenthal's question and answer? >4. The magnitude of the error in Y is independent of the value of X Radioactive decay is a good example of data where plotting a logarithm of a measure quantity is useful. It is included as an example in the program. However one glance at Figure 2 shows immediately that this is not experimental data. The program has put in fluctuations, but not so that the proportional error increases at later times, when the count is low and statistical fluctuations get worse. This problem is what Rosenthal apparently had in mind when he said > If the program multiplies the true value by a factor, > the error depends upon the value of X. Not really. However the error should depend upon the value of Y, and in this case and many others, the error does not depend linearly on Y as is assumed by this method of calculation (and shown in Lanzaframe's examples). Random errors in practice are more complicated than either of the easy assumptions: random error is independent of Y or random fractional error is independent of Y. I strongly believe in giving students experimental data to work with in order to avoid data which gives a grossly incorrect idea about the nature of random errors (as this does, at least in this example). To make a program like Lanzaframe's useable the error generation subroutines must be made more complex. Perhaps three percentage errors could be specified, and three random numbers generated to give E1, E2, and E3 errors. Then the calculated Y value could be Y(true) * (1+E1) + sqrt(Y(true) * (1 + E2) + E3. We are fortunate in this case to have the source code in Quickbasic available, so a programmer can make the required corrections and try the revised program before giving it to students. Many good commercial programs are unfortunately unusable because corrections like this are impossible. I strongly agree students need more practice with graphing. I am somewhat concerned with students copying answers from other students. That's one reason I like interfaced laboratories, students can get lots of data to graph which is unique. I disagree with Lanzaframe on the value of denying freshman chemistry students the use of graphing programs. We give our students at this level a program (B4) which does spreadsheet type calculations and does graphing. If you want (as I do) to have students test alternate ways to graph one set of data, they really need the speed of computer graphing. I can see real value in Lanzaframe's program in assigning even more graphing problems to our students. However before I will use it the treatment of random errors must be improved so that the data would at least be indistinguishable from real data. And if we are to assign ten times as many problems as Lanzaframe does, I think we would have to abandon hand grading. The computer that assigns the problems will have to do the grading also. I personally would also need the capability of continually adding new types of problems to the system. I know what I need in the way of computer assisted instruction, and I find that it is not yet available. But I may be a minority of one. I would like to know what other conference participants think. Sincerely Reed Howald "uchrh@earth.oscs.montana.edu" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 14:32:39 CDT From: "GARY L. BERTRAND" Subject: Re: paper 6 discussion In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 12 Jul 1993 11:10:01 MDT from Regarding Least Squares Regression I think that both comments on Rosenthal's question are missing the point. The experimental uncertainty is a function of the experiments. Sometimes the uncer tainty in Y is independent of Y (which is assumed by normal unweighted regressi on), sometimes the error is directly proportional to Y as in a constant % error (unweighted least squares treats this properly if log(Y) is linear with X), and sometimes the relationship is more complex (proportional to sqrt(Y) for counting). To deal properly with these situations, one must not only under- stand the experiment, but weighting procedures as well. Joe Noggle's EasyFit Program and Discussion is the best treatment I've seen. ************************************************************************* * GARY L. BERTRAND, DEPT OF CHEMISTRY, UNIVERSITY OF MISSOURI-ROLLA * * ROLLA, MO 65401. (314)-341-4441 * * BITNET- GBERT@UMRVMB INTERNET- GBERT@UMRVMB.UMR.EDU * * "I NEVER WANTED TO BE FAMOUS, I JUST WANTED TO BE GREAT." RAY CHARLES * ************************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 13:10:09 -0700 From: Stephen Lower Subject: Re: Paper 6 Reply to Short Questions >2. I suspect that the use of computers to "speed up certain processes" > is a bit more controversial. (I only very reluctantly stopped > requiring my students to use a slide rule. ;-) ) I think that > there is pedagogic value in manually plotting graphs and putting the > best line through the data. [Reed Howald] ... maybe once or twice in one's lifetime, but let's face it: manual plotting, like manual titration, is fast ceasing to be a valued skill. Far better, in my view, to spend the time on getting students to actively think about and interpret graphs; that's one reason why I make my students work with log-concentration vs. pH graphs, for example. The idea that plodding manual operations (such as taking lecture notes) somehow enhances learning has a certain appeal, particularly to those of us who had to do things the old way, but it does not seem to be very well supported by the research literature. ---------- Steve Lower - Vancouver, Canada Dept of Chemistry - Simon Fraser University - Burnaby BC V5A 1S6 lower@sfu.ca 604-291-3353 FAX: 604-291-3765 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 16:23:00 EDT From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Paper 6 - Discussion on Least Squares and Plotting > Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 09:18:40 EDT > From: "Frank M. Lanzafame" > Subject: Paper 6 Reply to Short Questions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: Donald Rosenthal > In normal unweighted least squares calculations it is implicitly > assumed: > > 1. There is no error in X values, only in Y values. > 2. There is equal probability (0.5) of finding positive and negative > deviations from the true value of Y. > 3. The error in the value of Y is normally distributed (i.e. larger > errors are less probable than smaller errors). > 4. The magnitude of the error in Y is independent of the value of X. > > QUESTION: Does your program generate errors which conform to > conditions 3 and 4? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > YOUR ANSWER > Y = Y * ErrFactor(0.05) *************************************** > The Y values ARE normally distributed with larger errors being less > probable than smaller errors. The error produced in Y is independent > of the value of X and dependent only upon the RELATIVE standard > deviation desired. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >MY STATEMENT > If the program multiplies the true value by a factor, > the error depends upon the value of X. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > YOUR RESPONSE > I am not clear what is meant here. .... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * Suppose the student performs an experiment on Temperature Conversion * where different temperatures are measured using both Fahrenheit and * Celsius thermometers or such measurements are simulated. (See * Section III-A of your paper. An unweighted linear least squares * fit of the equation: F = k C + a * where F = Fahrenheit temperature C = Celsius temperature k = the slope (theoretically 1.8) a = the y intercept (theoretically 32) * assumes NO ERROR in Celsius temperature readings, and that the * error in Fahrenheit temperature readings does not depend upon * the Fahrenheit temperature (perhaps it would be + or - 0.1 Fahrenheit * degrees with a reasonably good thermometer) * I am not certain what your equation Y = Y * ErrFactor(0.05) * means, but I assume it means that the error in Y (Fahrenheit) would * be zero when Y = 0 F and 100 times larger (on the average) when * Y = 100 F as compared to when Y = 1 F. IS THIS CORRECT? * If not, I don't understand Y = Y * ErrFactor(0.05). * If what I say above is true, then the equation should be fitted by * a WEIGHTED rather than an UNWEIGHTED least squares calculation. * IF THE EQUATION FITTED IS: * LOG Y = A X + B * THEN Y = Y * ErrFactor will result in errors in LOG Y (but not Y) * which are independent of LOG Y. Thus, what you did * is appropriate for two of your examples (the LOG ACTIVITY * and LOG Vapor Pressure fits). ====================================================================== * In your response to Reed Howald you indicate: > 1. I use the computer to generate unique problems for the individual student to do. * Good > 2. I think that there is pedagogic value in manually plotting graphs > and putting the best line through the data. * I tend to agree that freshmen should perform one or two plots by * hand. I'm not certain that David Brooks (Paper 9) would agree. > I confess that I am bothered when I find that students are using > graphing software to process data at the general chemistry level. * When I taught freshmen general chemistry lab, I had the students * prepare manual plots AND use linear least squares and plotting * programs (see Paper 1 and my article in Spring 1992 Computer in * Chemical Education Newsletter). Much more can be learned from the * statistics obtained from linear least squares calculations. * Comparing manual plots with what computers can do is instructive. * Of course, what you do will depend on the availability of * computers. Should practicing engineers and scientists be doing * manual plots or using least squares and plotting software? * For some undergraduates the chemistry laboratory course may be the * only laboratory course the student takes. What should the student * learn from such a course? > 4. In our second year analytical course, students learn to calculate > regression results from x's, y's, and sums of squares etc. We > believe they should learn how to do the basic calculations before > using regression programs like black boxes. * I don't agree with this. Such calculations are laborious. In my * opinion a student's time is much better spent trying to understand * the results of least squares calculations. Students who really want * to understand the calculations should take a course in statistics. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 17:22:43 -0400 From: theresa Julia Zielinski Organization: University at Buffalo Subject: Re: Paper 6 Reply to Short Questions >>2. I suspect that the use of computers to "speed up certain processes" >> is a bit more controversial. (I only very reluctantly stopped >> requiring my students to use a slide rule. ;-) ) I think that >> there is pedagogic value in manually plotting graphs and putting the >> best line through the data. [Reed Howald] >... maybe once or twice in one's lifetime, but let's face it: >manual plotting, like manual titration, is fast ceasing to be >a valued skill. Far better, in my view, to spend the time on >getting students to actively think about and interpret graphs; >that's one reason why I make my students work with log-concentration >vs. pH graphs, for example. The idea that plodding manual operations >(such as taking lecture notes) somehow enhances learning has a certain >appeal, particularly to those of us who had to do things the old way, >but it does not seem to be very well supported by the research literature. >[Steve Lower - Vancouver, Canada] This points out a weakness that so many of us share. We lack information on the effectiveness of our teaching strategies. It may be time for us to investigate the use of assessment as an aid to instruction. There are many quick and effective strategies that would only take two or three minutes to do in a class and can be randomly or more carefully examined to see if the students have 'gotten it' whatever it may be. In the mean time we should not redo the sliderule/calculator wars into a manual.plotting/computer.plotting graphgate. You know which will win, its just a matter of time. The real issue as Steve points out is how the students are thinking about the printed word or the pretty graph. We need to develop a critical attitude in our students. This also requires an understanding of their developmental levels. Some skills cannot be learned at early developmental levels. Computer images and nice looking graphs prepared with a minimum of tedium fosters interest and learning. My own experience in PChem shows that students learn more effectively about the significance of their graphs when they are using the best technology that I can offer them for preparing their graphs. This is true for gen chem too. Unfortunately, so many gen chem labs are not equipped to offer this way to learn. This is an area where we all can help by pushing for more computers for the 1st year chem. students. Theresa Julia Zielinski Niagara University Roszieli@ubvms ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 20:08:54 -0500 From: George Long Organization: Indiana University of Pennsylvania Subject: Re: Paper 6 Reply to Short Questions I agree completely with Theresa, assesment of our students is paramount. This is particularly true at smaller (or less well funded) schools where the cost of such technology is not trivial. If the school invests in the equipment there should be an assurance that educational quality improves. George Long Indiana Univ. Of PA GRLONG@grove.iup.edu(or iup.bitnet) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 21:10:48 -0400 From: theresa Julia Zielinski Organization: University at Buffalo Subject: Help request - reference I found the reference that I thought was sent out through this list. You all may be interested if you haven't heard of it yet. "Computational Chemistry in the Undergraduate Curriculum" by Roger L. DeKock (Calvin College), Jeffry D. Madura (University of South Alabama), Frank Rioux (St. John's University), and Joseph Casanova (California State University at Los Angeles). in Volume 4 of REVIEWS IN COMPUTATIONAL CHEMISTRY 1993 ed by K.B. Lipkowitz (IUPUI) and Donald B. Boyd (Lilly Research Laboratories). ISBN 1-56081-620-1 VCH Publishers, Inc. 303 NW 12th AVE Deerfield Beach, Florida 33442 tel: 800-367-8247 price $75 information obtained from the mail exploder : chemistry@osc.edu - a computational chemistry list. Theresa Julia Zielinski Niagara University Roszieli@ubvms ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 22:20:45 EDT From: Sherman Henzel Subject: Maual graphing and manual titrations Steve Lower wrote that manual graphing and manual titrations are no longer performed. I teach Analytical Chemistry at MCC and have occasion to visit many laboratories with my students. They have the same attitude toward titrations that Steve Lower does. They think that when to industry they will never do another (manual) titration again. They are always surprised to find how many titrations are still done manually. While there may be few if any graphs being done by hand, there are many titrations still being done that way! ___________________________________________________________ | Sherman Henzel Department of Chemistry | | Monroe Community College 1000 East Henrietta Rd. | | Rochester, NY 14623 (716) 292-2000 Ext. 5124 | | Internet: shenzel@eckert.acadcomp.monroecc.edu | ----------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 01:08:29 EDT From: "Frank M. Lanzafame" Subject: Paper 6 Reply to some of Monday's Discussion ###################################################################### REGARDING ERRORS GENERATED IN THE DATA: Judging from some of the comments and discussion thus far, this paper has not been a masterpiece of clarity: 1. My goal was simply to provide some computer generated data as exercises for students--principally in General Chemistry. 2. These sets currently represent four or five graphical problems for students to do. This should not be an undue burden for manual analysis. It should be simple review for most students, but too frequently turns out to be otherwise. 3. To provide a bit of realism, I decided to produce some scatter in the data rather than present perfectly linear data where any two data points would have sufficed. 4. I chose to apply normally distributed scatter in the Y values which would correspond to relative standard deviations of the order of a few percent. 5. Students are told that there is scatter in the points which is meant to simulate errors which might be made in collecting the data. They are asked to do the best they can to determine the slopes and intercepts characterizing the data. They are then asked to use these slopes and intercepts to answer some questions about the phenomena they have just characterized. ###################################################################### Reed Howald's comments on radioactive decay errors: > The program has put in fluctuations, but not so that the > proportional error increases at later times, when the count is low > and statistical fluctuations get worse. I agree with Reed Howald that the error in my radioactive decay problem is not realistically distributed, but I'm not sure that many freshmen can tell the difference. The scatter in Figure 2 represents about a one percent relative standard deviation in the log (Activity). If I recall correctly, standard deviations in radioactive measurements varies with approximately the square root of the counts. Thus for Figure 2, the higher counts should show about a one percent deviation in the Activity (NOT the log (Activity) ) and about a three percent deviation in the Activity for the lower counts. Since the program has been written modularly, and I have tried produce readable code, it should be relatively easy to modify the program to suit individual tastes. ###################################################################### >From Steve Lower: >> I think that there is pedagogic value in manually plotting graphs >> and putting the best line through the data. > ... maybe once or twice in one's lifetime, but let's face it: > manual plotting, like manual titration, is fast ceasing to be a > valued skill. ..... The idea that plodding manual operations (such > as taking lecture notes) somehow enhances learning has a certain > appeal, particularly to those of us who had to do things the old > way, but it does not seem to be very well supported by the research > literature. It seems to me that the students I work with require more than once or twice in a lifetime to understand what they are doing. It is not clear to me that this once or twice in a lifetime approach has not contributed to our students' inability to do algebra. How many have noticed the increase in very basic algebra which has been added to general chemistry texts to compensate for student's lack of facility with algebra. I think it is important to stress fundamentals. Yes, even manual titrations. Many of our chemical technology students still find they can earn a living with these antiquated skills. Not every small company can afford auto titrators, and not every large company will dedicate one for every occasional titration. ###################################################################### From: Donald Rosenthal > Suppose the student performs an experiment on Temperature > Conversion where different temperatures are measured using both > Fahrenheit and Celsius thermometers or such measurements are > simulated. (See Section III-A of your paper. An unweighted linear > least squares fit of the equation: F = k C + a where, > F = Fahrenheit temperature > C = Celsius temperature > k = the slope (theoretically 1.8) > a = the y intercept (theoretically 32) > assumes NO ERROR in Celsius temperature readings, and that the > error in Fahrenheit temperature readings does not depend upon the > Fahrenheit temperature (perhaps it would be + or - 0.1 Fahrenheit > degrees with a reasonably good thermometer) I am not certain what > your equation Y = Y * ErrFactor(0.05) means, but I assume it means > that the error in Y (Fahrenheit) would be zero when Y = 0 F and 100 > times larger (on the average) when Y = 100 F as compared to when > Y = 1 F. IS THIS CORRECT? YES! > If what I say above is true, then the equation should be fitted by > a WEIGHTED rather than an UNWEIGHTED least squares calculation. Point taken. >> In our second year a